Type T-IV ATF

[Desertmaster]

I called Redline Oil and Amsoil Tech Support Dept.'s and they told me that they have nothing compatible with Toyota Type T-IV Trans. Oil.....to the contrary....the dealers for both Mfg. quoted me different......just wanted to save someone a huge and a coastly mistake in case you plan on replacing your ATF....just make sure it is Toyota Type T-IV.

Also see the following thread on the 80-series:

http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/22554-transmission-fluid-type-t-iv-redline-oil.html

Thanks
Al

[98LXand99LC]

Ok, that thread is making me nervous. I've replaced both of my 100's ATF with Amsoil. What will happen????

[Augie]

My 99 factory repair manual specify Dextron II or Dextron III. There is nothing special about the fluid.
Where did you find that spec?

[Desertmaster]

I have verified the info via the Owners manual as well as the dealer's Master mechanic (Toyota & Lexus) to confirm my findings...and they indicated to me that they never utilize Dextron II or III in any transmission that sits behind a V8 engine...as well as all Lexus models even the ones that have V6 and Straight 6 have been updated to Type T-IV ATF starting from 00 and up..... as for prior years 98-99 I was told only the V8's had the Type T-IV ATF........also I was told by the same master mechanics that a mixture of Dextron II or III with Type T-IV is not recommended at all...he never elaborated on what would happen if indeed someone made the mistake.......I did referenced to them that the Repair Manual is indicating Dextron II or III......their reply were: mistakes are common in those repair manuals as Toyota always issues a correction to the manuals based on the feed back they receive from the field technicians.......Sorry about the long post.......I hope I covered everyone's concern.

For of those who had mixed the two type of ATF's.....I would look to do a full flush through the cooler lines and replace it with the correct fluid.....again this is my $0.02....I would advise you to contact the dealerships near you and verify the accuracy of this info......I have done that and most of the dealers I spoke with they confirmed it.

Note: Please keep in mind that the 95 - 97 FZJ80 has the same transmission that goes into the 98-99 100 series....so that could be why we are seeing the Dextron II or III being mentioned in the repair manual......it could be carried over by mistake from the older model manual.....but again......this is me thinking loud....please do your diligent do and contact the dealers near you to verify it.

Thanks

Al

[NMuzj100]

The following is an email I sent to AMSOIL Technical Service after seeing that their Universal ATF was recommended on the Website (Corporate, not a dealer) for use in trannies requiring T-IV fluid.

I have a 2004 Toyota Landcruiser (UZJ100) and the owner's manual recommends Toyota Type IV automatic transmission fluid. How is this different from the Dextron III fluid recommended in earlier model years using the same transmission and should I use the AMSOIL Univesal ATF or stick with a dealer supplied Toyota Type IV fluid ? I noticed that the web site recommends the AMSOIL ATF but Toyota Type IV is not listed on bottles of AMSOIL Universal ATF. Thanks

AMSOIL Reply

From: AMSOIL Technical Services

Thank you for contacting AMSOIL with your concerns.

In response to your inquiry, reformulation of AMSOIL Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) was not required to attain the Toyota Type T and T-IV ratings. Therefore the labels don’t reflect the rating, as this is a relatively recent change.

Thank you again for the opportunity to respond to your concerns. As always, please feel free to contact us again if we can be of further assistance.

Sincerely,
Jim Van
AMSOIL Technical Services

I am running AMSOIL ATF in my UZJ100 and feel very safe doing so. I am thinking that T-IV is essentially a high-quality Dextron III like product, perhaps even semi-synthetic (like MERCON V) and that is why Toyota has moved to it but AMSOIL Universal ATF did not have to be changed to meet the requirements. I would still like to see the T-IV approval on the bottle. My semi-synthetic theory makes the high price of the T-IV from a dealer seem more reasonable but I have never expected or received reasonable prices from a dealer.

[98LXand99LC]

Nmuzj100,

Thanks for the post. I feel a lot better about having made the switch to Amsoil.

[Desertmaster]

This is great....but I was never able to get the Amsoil technical rep. to say it is compatiable......and it is OK for both type of ATF's to be mixed.......like you said I still would like to see it reflected on the bottle...legally if anything goes wrong I would like to hold them accountable for the failure of my Transmission....but since it is not stated I will continue to utilize Toyota Type T-IV untill they reflect the compatibility factor on the bottle itself.......my $0.02.


Thanks

[Gumby]

I have just found out that Vavoline Maxlife is T-IV compatable. Unfortunately, it is not synthetic and cost almost as I just paid for T-IV. About 3.10 vs. 3.60 per quart. If your dealer hoses you full list it'll be closer to $5 for the TOyota.

[NMuzj100]

To Valvoline Customer Service

Toyota reccomends a T-IV rated ATF fluid for the automatic transmission in
my Landcrusier. Does Valvoline have a ATF that meets those requirements?
The dealer prices for the Toyota fluid seem high and I am looking for an
alternative.

And their response...

THOMAS R. SMITH
Technical Director, Valvoline Brand
June 7, 2004
To Whom It May Concern:
Valvoline has received several inquiries regarding the topic of MaxLife ATF and its use in various vehicles beyond those requiring DEXRON-III or MERCON approved products. In response to these questions Valvoline has issued the following statements:

Valvoline supports the use of MaxLife ATF in a broad range of transmissions beyond those requiring DEXRON III and MERCON fluids including those where the following fluids are recommended:

o GM DEXRON II
o Ford MERCON V
o Allison C-4
o Chrysler ATF+3 or ATF+4 fluids
o Toyota (and Lexus) Type T, T-III or T-IV fluids
o Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II or SP-III fluids
o Hyundai
o Honda ATF-Z1 fluid (except in CVTs)
o BMW LT71141 or LA2634 fluids
o Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, and Matic-K fluids

MaxLife ATF is recommended for the new 5 and 6 speed transmissions, except the Ford 5R110, Ford 6RXX, and the Mercedes Benz W7A700 (7G-TRONIC) which all require a low viscosity Automatic Transmission Fluid.

Valvoline has conducted in-house testing to support MaxLife ATF performance in these transmissions. However, it is important to note that these vehicle manufacturers have neither evaluated nor approved MaxLife ATF.
Valvoline stands behind all of its products, including MaxLife ATF. Use of MaxLife ATF in transmissions where recommended by Valvoline WILL NOT void the vehicle’s warranty. In the unlikely event that any transmission was to be damaged as a result of the use of MaxLife ATF, please contact Valvoline at 1-800-Team-VAL.

While MaxLife ATF is designed to meet the special needs of higher mileage transmissions, new transmissionscan also benefit from its enhanced oxidation protection, shear stability, seal compatibility, and anti-shudder protection and many consumers have chosen to take advantage of this level of performance.
Valvoline does not recommend MaxLife ATF for use in continuously variable transmissions (CVT’s) or in
automatic transmissions where Ford Type F is recommended.

Sincerely,
Thom Smith
Technical Director
Valvoline Brand

So it looks like we have at least two aftermarket options for our T-IV Fluid.

[cruisermaine]

Amsoil corporate web site says their ATF meets performance spec of Toyota T-IV.

https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx

They also have directions for replacement / flush of tranny fluid.

[hank14]

Yeah, I followed their instructions for the self flush when I bought my rig, and have been running all their fluids since July 2003.

[Pitbull]

Originally Posted by NMuzj100

The following is an email I sent to AMSOIL Technical Service after seeing that their Universal ATF was recommended on the Website (Corporate, not a dealer) for use in trannies requiring T-IV fluid.

I have a 2004 Toyota Landcruiser (UZJ100) and the owner's manual recommends Toyota Type IV automatic transmission fluid. How is this different from the Dextron III fluid recommended in earlier model years using the same transmission and should I use the AMSOIL Univesal ATF or stick with a dealer supplied Toyota Type IV fluid ? I noticed that the web site recommends the AMSOIL ATF but Toyota Type IV is not listed on bottles of AMSOIL Universal ATF. Thanks

.

If you own a 2004 LC with the 5 speed transmission that does not have a dipstick to check the fluid level you need to recheck your owners manual. It should say that you have "TOYOTA WS ATF" which is not compatable with any other ATF made. If it is mixed or contaminated with any other ATF it will cause you problems. The last year Toyota used Toyota type IV ATF in these transmissions for the LC/LX/GX and 4runner V8 was 2003, they switched to WS ATF in 2004. Hope this helps.

[Jim_Chow]

So does this mean one can only buy the special ATF from the Toyota dealer?

[Pitbull]

For the 2004 and 2005's that is what I've been told. I would like to know if NMuzj100, mixed his what happened? Is it still running? Maybe he did a flush and replaced all of the WS ATF with the Type IV ATF? But that wouldn't make sense since the WS is the latest and greatest. If the dealer flushed the WS and replaced it with the Type IV I would make them redo the work with the OEM WS fluid that the manual calls for. Hard to keep up with all these changes in fluid types and what works with what.

[Toylexmods]

OK,

Some confusion here. 98-99 LX470s need Dextron right? The owners manual states it, the service manual states it, the dipstick states it.

What gives?

[NMuzj100]

The confusion is caused by Toyota changing transfluids every couple of years.

1998-2000? - Dexron III - Lots of Aftermarket options
2000?-2003 - Toyota Type-IV - Valvoline Maxlife, Mobil ATF 3309 and Amsoil (Synthetic)
2003- - WS (World Standard) - Don't worry it's a "Lifetime" Fluid

The main goal of this thread was to find out what options were available for Type-IV tranny fluids as it was pricey. The end result is that Amsoil technical support said that their ATF met Toyota - IV standards without reformulation (indicating not much difference form regular Dexron III) and since it is Dexron III compatible also it can run in any of the 4-speed auto trannies. The new World Standard (WS) is a totally different animal that apparently never needs changed or even checked .

My truck has always seen a Dexron III compatible product since it is a 1998.

[NeilC]

I have a 2000 LC. What fluid should I use? The preceeding post confused me thoroughly. Please unconfuse me.

[Jim_Chow]

Originally Posted by NeilC

I have a 2000 LC. What fluid should I use? The preceeding post confused me thoroughly. Please unconfuse me.

It should say on the tranny dipstick.

[NMuzj100]

Neil C - Nice thread resurrection - 2+ years

I wrote a long update in response and then lost it. I may try and rewrite soon.

Until then check your dipstick for the right fluid and consider a good "multi-vehicle fluid" whether your truck is a DIII or T-IV.

What year or at what VIN is the switch from DIII to T-IV?

[cary]

Originally Posted by NMuzj100

Until then check your dipstick for the right fluid and consider a good "multi-vehicle fluid" whether your truck is a DIII or T-IV.

The Specs for T-IV and Dexron are entirely different, one oil does not meet both. DO NOT USE ANY OIL WHERE T-IV IS CALLED FOR EXCEPT FOR T-IV. The price the dealer charges for the T-IV is reasonable.

[bulldog-yota]

I have used Amsoil Syn ATF for almost 30K miles in my 03 5spd box, which included some pretty good wheeling, hard racing on the dunes, long and hard mountain roads with a fully loaded truck. No ill effect adn actually shifted better than the ATF Type-IV.

Teh big ballbreaker is the 03+ trannies which takes Toyota WS fluid (which is full synthetic), no replacement available for that AFAIK. Just get the Toyota fluid. It willprobably be a good idea to swap it at 60K if you work the tranny hard anyway, maybe I'm old school but there is no such thing as a life time fluid (unless you want to reduce the lifetime of the component ).

Your owners manual should state what to use.

[NMuzj100]

Originally Posted by cary

The Specs for T-IV and Dexron are entirely different, one oil does not meet both. DO NOT USE ANY OIL WHERE T-IV IS CALLED FOR EXCEPT FOR T-IV. The price the dealer charges for the T-IV is reasonable.

Are you sure ? The T-IV is no longer an unknown and the major blenders are recommending their "Multi-vehicle" fluids for T-IV applications. These fluids all exceed the Dexron III standard and most meet the Mercon V standard with it's tougher base oil requirements.

Valvoline

Valvoline Maxlife
- Suitable for T-IV
- "Exceeds Dex III-H"

Pennzoil

PENNZOIL MULTI-VEHICLE ATF is Suitable for use in applications requiring:
• DEXRON®, DEXRON®-II, DEXRON®-III
• MERCON®, MERCON® V
• Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/Plymouth except NAG1 that requires Shell 3403 ATF
• Toyota T, T-III, T-IV

Castrol

CASTROL IMPORT MULTIVEHICLE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID IS FOR USE IN MOST HONDA, TOYOTA, NISSAN AND OTHER IMPORTED VEHICLES.
* Premium Synthetic Blend formula
* Recommended for use in vehicles that require:
o Honda, Acura — ATF–Z1 (except in CVTs)
o Toyota, Lexus — Type T, T–III, T–IV
o Nissan, Infiniti — Matic–D, Matic–J
o BMW — LA2634, LT71141
o Mitsubishi — Diamond SP–II, SP–III
* Also meets requirements of
o Ford MERCON®, MERCON® V
o General Motors DEXRON®–III H

Chevron

Chevron Multi-Vehicle ATF
Can be used in
- Dexron III
- Mercon V
- Toyota JWS 3309/T-IV
- Mercon SP
- Toyota WS (I'm surprised at this one.)

The Mercon SP and WS recommendations for the Chevron fluid both surprised me, probably a sign of a very good fluid.
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/genera...DS27291637.PDF

Several companies (ConocoPhillips, Quaker State, Havoline) don't list T-IV directly but say for use in all Toyotas except WS models.

The only major without a Multi-Vehicle fluid recommended for T-IV is Mobil. They make 3309 for these applications and probably for Toyota.

The after market blenders are becoming increasingly sophisticated and it is hard for the OEMs to keep their hold on the service fill market with inferior products or ones with only minor differences from well known standards. This is why GM moved away from a performance based standard to a formula based standard for Dexron-VI.

[9toys]

I replaced the atf in my 99 with valvoline dexron 111/mercon about 10K ago. shifts perfectly. i just did a drain and fill. I had the dealer do it about 60K ago and they used dexron 111 also.

[cary]

Originally Posted by NMuzj100

Are you sure ? The T-IV is no longer an unknown and the major blenders are recommending their "Multi-vehicle" fluids for T-IV applications. These fluids all exceed the Dexron III standard and most meet the Mercon V standard with it's tougher base oil requirements.

That's new from the last time I checked. If the majors are listing their oils as compatible, go for it, just make sure the bottle you buy says so, so if you have an oil related problem down the road you can go back to them.

[e9999]

the problem is that if oil manufacturer XXX says their stuff is compatible with Toy XYZ, that really doesn't mean too much. I mean how are you going to prove that the trans failed because you used XXX? I suspect their marketing guys drive the lists as much as the tech ones.

OTOH, sadly, if truck manuf YYY says to use only theirs it will indeed likely be optimal but will likely also be overpriced.

What's a DIYer to do...?

When I read about replacing the ATF in our 03, I did quite a bit of reading about the different types, and ended up telling my wife to get some ATF at the Toy dealer (it about killed me... ).

[cary]

Originally Posted by e9999

the problem is that if oil manufacturer XXX says their stuff is compatible with Toy XYZ, that really doesn't mean too much. I mean how are you going to prove that the trans failed because you used XXX? I suspect their marketing guys drive the lists as much as the tech ones.

OTOH, sadly, if truck manuf YYY says to use only theirs it will indeed likely be optimal but will likely also be overpriced.

What's a DIYer to do...?

When I read about replacing the ATF in our 03, I did quite a bit of reading about the different types, and ended up telling my wife to get some ATF at the Toy dealer (it about killed me... ).

The only reason I am somewhat okay with it is because generally the major manufactures will not say it meets the standard if it doesn't. I have to wonder if Toyota is charging for the certification for T-IV. If it were me, I would run the Mobil 3309, which clearly states is the meets the specifications. Interestingly, the 3309 appears to be formulated with special friction modifiers as they refer to the transmission as a slip controlled design.

Product Description

Mobil ATF 3309 is an exceptionally high performance lubricant that meets original equipment manufacturers’ specifications for use in certain slip-controlled lock-up automatic transmissions. Mobil ATF 3309 is recommended for use in transmissions made by Aisin-Warner requiring a fluid approved against Type T-IV, JWS 3309, GM 9986195 and VW/Audi G-055-025-A2. These Aisin-Warner transmissions are used in CERTAIN domestic and foreign vehicles, including Toyota, Lexus, Audi, Saturn, Ford, Volvo, Volkswagen, Saab, Porsche and Mitsubishi.


Features and Benefits

The unique formulation of Mobil ATF 3309 is designed to provide excellent lubrication of transmissions in specified Aisin-Warner slip-controlled lock-up automatic transmissions. These outstanding performance capabilities translate into significant operational benefits, including:


* Excellent lubricating characteristics for quiet operation and smooth shifting in approved transmissions
* Controlled friction properties for smooth and efficient transmission of power across all normal temperature ranges
* Helps to control transmission shudder and provide excellent vehicle driveability
* Helps to extend transmission life based on excellent wear control
* Long fluid life based on excellent oxidation resistance
* Excellent viscosity stability (high viscosity index) to help assure adequate lubrication without excessive thinning in severe high-temperature service or thickening at low starting temperatures
* Resistance to foaming
* Superb protection against rusting and corrosion
* Compatibility with synthetic rubber seal materials


Applications

Mobil ATF 3309 is recommended for use in transmissions made by Aisin-Warner requiring fluids approved against JWS 3309 or GM 9986195. It is also recommended for service fill applications where Toyota T-IV, T4, T-III or T3 are called for. Please refer to the owners’ manual for proper fluid requirements.

[e9999]

all boils down to $$, I guess. If one could use a cheap but good major line ATF, that would give pause, but if the alternative to the Toy stuff is a fancy synthetic that's just about as expensive, then one can't go too much wrong with the Toy stuff and it's a no brainer. How much do the fancy synths cost?