Who will be first to convert their 100 to TD?

[uzj100]

http://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-...00-series.html

Who will be the first in the US to convert to a 1HD-FTE? I am estimating it wil cost around 25 to 30k for the conversion. Once converted, you may have the only one in the country.

This is does not make economic sense, it would just be nice to have a turbo diesel 100 that could get 20 mpg city and 25 mpg highway.

I purchased my 00 for $18k plus $30k for the conversion means you have $48k in a 8 year truck. If the truck has a service life of 25 years, then you would probably get another 15 years out of it.

BioCruiser Gallery - This is pretty interesting site.

[LandCruisers4Life]

I like my V8 gas hog. Now if the government wants to pay for the conversion, since all these high gasoline prices are their fault anyway, I'll allow that.

[uzj100]

Govt. subsidized conversion would be sweet.

[Trunk Monkey]

No one. Like you said, it's not cost effective. I'd go with a Cummins motor long before I'd go with a non-US motor that you likely won't be able to source parts for. Last I knew on the 80 series the 4BT swap was running $10-12k including the labor to have someone else do it. Even then, the fuel efficiency of a diesel motor vs. the 2UZ isn't THAT great. I can buy a lot of premium for 10 grand. And if a blown motor is driving the swap, a low mile 2UZ with a newer 5 speed tranny is still a lot less.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Diesel sucks, stinks, costs more, requires more maintenance.

Diesel sucks.

You want a diesel 100 in the US? Buy Podvin's 6-wheeler.

[Jim_Chow]

Definitely not cost effective. One major reason why people use diesel overseas besides the slightly better fuel economy and diesel is usually far cheaper than any grade of gasoline. Still, the maintenance costs and initial purchase price are slightly higher (like $7K in Oz between the petrol and TD), making it a wash unless you are driving a long distance w/o a gas station, with never really occurs in the lower 48 states. When you factor in the additional higher cost of diesel here (I'm seeing prices of $4.06/gal for diesel vs. $3.74/gal for premium in AZ), it's a deal-breaker. Most of the refining capacity in this country is geared towards gasoline over diesel. If one had $50K to blow on a conversion, one would be better off buying a used HDJ100 overseas & bringing it up to DOT specs (maybe $10K additional). The base price of the HDJ101 (Japan) was only $40K when new, so a used one plus the DOT cert fees would still run less than trying to convert a UZJ100.

[dclee]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Diesel sucks, stinks, costs more, requires more maintenance.

Diesel sucks.

You want a diesel 100 in the US? Buy Podvin's 6-wheeler.

Once again, ignorance pervades...

It is certainly not cost effective to convert an existing 100 to diesel, and probably won't be for a LONG LONG time, if ever. But the above blanket statements, once again, are just flat wrong.

[rusty_tlc]

I would think the 24V conversion alone would be a nightmare.

[100 TD]

Yeah converting the 1HD-FTE to 24 volts would be a nightmare alright! (Not sure why you would want to, 24 volt systems went out about 20 years ago IIRC)

An engine sold on ebay in OZ a few weeks ago for $6300 IIRC. That was complete with wiring harness and ECU. It was for a manual IIRC. (Probably a lot cheaper in Japan)
There is a fair bit of interest over here in using this engine in an 80 series and also in a Nissan Patrol. The patrols have a very strong driveline so the engine would make them work well.
I think you could do it easily enough if you picked one up from a wrecked "Sahara", which is our top of the line spec cruiser. That way the ECU/harness would most likely interface with your vehicles which are spec'd fairly highly from the start. So price wise, I think you could do it for a lot less than stated above, and the engine coming from Japan would probably be the easiest transport option.

[hoser]

I also think it can be done for much less. Aside from parts, engine swaps are expensive because they require custom parts--mounts, wiring, exhaust manifold, intercooler, etc... and trial and error fitting. But if you could get a half-cut LHD turbo diesel 100, it would be straight forward.

[dclee]

Originally Posted by hoser

I also think it can be done for much less. Aside from parts, engine swaps are expensive because they require custom parts--mounts, wiring, exhaust manifold, intercooler, etc... and trial and error fitting. But if you could get a half-cut LHD turbo diesel 100, it would be straight forward.

I think the LHD part might be tough. Not impossible, but tough. I think most of the biggest diesel markets are RHD, if I'm not mistaken.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by dclee

Once again, ignorance pervades...

It is certainly not cost effective to convert an existing 100 to diesel, and probably won't be for a LONG LONG time, if ever. But the above blanket statements, once again, are just flat wrong.

Bullshit!

The newer and advanced diesel trucks still SMELL

They cost MORE

They take LONGER for you to re-coop the price premium

They are noisier

They are slower compared to gas options

In the good ole USA you buy what you want. Enjoy your smelly POC diesel engines.

[100 TD]

I don't think you would need a LHD, simply we are talking the engine here, it is only made in one format, the transmission and transfer are only made in one format, just the linkages/selectors are different. Remember the fuse box/battery on your LHD is in the same place as a RHD, air cleaner in same place, the only things they swap are the steering column/dash/brake master cylinder/ wiper motor etc, not the engine components. I thought there was a difference in the chassis on the HDJ100 compared to to the UZJ100, but maybe I am thinking of the 105 which has the 80 series RFS.
Spill valve controller/ radiator? should be OK, fuel filter/pump and piping would be good, but not essential, I think the Evap pipes could be used sucessfully for diesel return pipes etc. Exhaust cat etc may be available from other toyota trucks or just aftermarket.
The ECU would be the biggest hurdle, even though it may plug straight in to the existing harness, some problems may take a bit of work. Definetly doable I expect, I think the UAE are LHD aren't they? If so then LHD diesels are standard and fit OK

[hoser]

I believe the HDJ100 and the UZJ100 have the same chassis.

Yeah, I agree, LHD is not necessary but is nice in case of a difference in the wiring harnesses (other than just the engine harness). Like you said, the ECU might just plug in but in the likely case it doesn't, you'd have the complete harness.

If in the case somebody got a hold of a manual tranny TD 100, there would some useful parts... pedals, shifter, clutch hydraulics, brackets, center console, etc.

I had to buy a new Nissan wiring harness for my JDM motor swap Datsun 510 (1600 to you blokes) and the simple harness was like $800. Buying a JDM engine/tranny by itself often gets you a cut harness.

[twstrchasr]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Diesel sucks, stinks, costs more, requires more maintenance.

Diesel sucks.

You want a diesel 100 in the US? Buy Podvin's 6-wheeler.

I drove a new GL 320 diesel a few weeks ago in Dallas and:

A) It wasn't noisy
B) It didn't stink. In fact, from the drivers seat (where I spend the most time in my car ) it smelled quite nice, like fine leather in fact !!
C) I think it was, in all probability quicker\ faster than my 4.7 100
D) I personally think the GL is quite ugly....Thus it isn't even a consideration to me. I do commend MB for offering the diesel option in the USA though !!

The diesel issue is well documented in other threads on MUD so I will not repeat what has been covered already. It is a complex issue that, in the end, lies on personal preferences, needs and wants. In the end...To each his own !!

Please pardon me for the mini-hijack

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by 100 TD

Yeah converting the 1HD-FTE to 24 volts would be a nightmare alright! (Not sure why you would want to, 24 volt systems went out about 20 years ago IIRC)

An engine sold on ebay in OZ a few weeks ago for $6300 IIRC. That was complete with wiring harness and ECU. It was for a manual IIRC. (Probably a lot cheaper in Japan)
There is a fair bit of interest over here in using this engine in an 80 series and also in a Nissan Patrol. The patrols have a very strong driveline so the engine would make them work well.
I think you could do it easily enough if you picked one up from a wrecked "Sahara", which is our top of the line spec cruiser. That way the ECU/harness would most likely interface with your vehicles which are spec'd fairly highly from the start. So price wise, I think you could do it for a lot less than stated above, and the engine coming from Japan would probably be the easiest transport option.

I am very ignorant about diesel, I was under the impression that all diesels were 24V systems?
Pretty much all the reading I've done on the subject pertained to 40 series so that may explain it.

[hoser]

The HDJ100 is not nearly as loud as the big Dodge/Ford diesel trucks we have in the US but still noticeably louder than a UZJ100. I'm fine with it.

Rusty_tlc, many diesels are also equipped with two batteries but operate in parallel (12V). Others only momentarily start on 24V but the rest of the vehicle operates on 12V.

[Trunk Monkey]

Diesel twin turbo 200 series anyone?

[dclee]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Bullshit!

The newer and advanced diesel trucks still SMELL

They cost MORE

They take LONGER for you to re-coop the price premium

They are noisier

They are slower compared to gas options

In the good ole USA you buy what you want. Enjoy your smelly POC diesel engines.

Ah, now you're qualifying your answer! Those are American heavy-duty truck diesels. Try one of the European or Japanese makes, afterall that's what we're talking about. My point is, you can't make a blanket statement that ALL diesels stink or are more expensive or whatever based on some examples but not all. You'd think that would be self-evident... Try driving a modern Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Volkswagon, or even Toyota diesel, then come talk to me. To your points:

Modern diesel engines smell no worse than modern gassers. Different smell, they all stink. Run bio if the engine is certified, and your tailpipe will smell like french fries. Makes you hungry all the time, but at least you won't die from carbon-monoxide poisoning like on a gasser.

They don't all cost more. In many cases they cost the same or less. For exmple, a Dodge Ram 2500 costs the exact same price whether you buy the 5.7L Hemi or the 6.7L Cummins. Of the eight models in the Mercedes E-Class lineup, only a whopping ONE costs less than the BLUETEC diesel model. And in terms of cost of fuel per mile, they are cheaper, despite the higher cost of the fuel itself at the pump. Think about fuel economy figures. If you need a mathematical example, please let me know, I'll try to put it in remedial math terms.

As I said, no price premium cost to recoup.

Noisier? Puhleeez. Like I said, go drive a BLUETEC and tell me it's any noisier than a gasser, from either inside or outside the car.

Slower? Hmmm, OK, here's one example: go look up the Audi R10. 230 mph top speed, 650 hp, 811 ft-lbs torque, undefeated at LeMans. And it's a diesel, oh my!

Ultimately, here's what it boils down to, for me. Making blanket statements, generalizations, like this and passing them off as Holy Scripture is the problem I have. Most of the vets can filter the BS you fling, but you do the newbies a disservice because they come to a technical forum expecting fact, and you feed them crap. Don't make generalizations like this that you CANNOT back up!

BTW, enjoy your inefficient, gutless POC gas engines!

[dclee]

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

I am very ignorant about diesel, I was under the impression that all diesels were 24V systems?
Pretty much all the reading I've done on the subject pertained to 40 series so that may explain it.

Yes, Toyota actually used a hybrid system on most of their trucks. I think they initially went 24V for NATO contracts, but anyway, I believe most Toyota diesels use 24V for starting, but then use 12V for running accessories. Some of the Canadian or Oz guys could chime in with more details.

The 12/24V thing has nothing to do with the engine, it's really about meeting a military spec. I believe NATO only uses 24V. Now, some people (me included) like a 24V starter because of the starting power available, plus, you can actually drive the vehicle for a little bit just on the starter alone, if you had to. My Mogs are 24V, but then again, they were built specifically for NATO contracts. BTW, they were initially built as petrol gas trucks, using the old 220S sedan motor in fact! But still a 24V system, with an actual generator, not an alternator (!) Finding 24V spark plugs, not to mention any other accessories, can be a pain...

My G-Wagen, on the other hand, is a diesel and uses a 12V system.

Clear as MUD?

[Dandon]

More than half of the cars sold here today are diesels (I think it's actually about 70%, and more than 90% in 4x4s), so I think I can share my point of view.
Let's focus on modern engines. There's no point in comparing obsolete technology and try to apply old prejudice to the latest models. Turbodiesel (TD) engines have seen an enormous evolution in the last 20 years. They are more powerful, silent and fuel efficient than ever, but they are still noisier and heavier that an equivalent gas engine. That's a fact and it can be read in any spec sheet. OTOH, diesel cars usually have a thicker noise insulation under the hood, so that the noise inside the cabin very similar to that of a gas version.
Whether diesel oil smells better or worse than gasoline is a matter of personal taste; I agree wih Schotts in that it stinks. And the odour is far more persistent than the more volatile gasoline. That's the reason why gas stations have disposable plastic gloves for filling up, which every diesel owner uses. I've never needed one except when I have rented a diesel car.
The main reason why people bought diesels was fuel economy. Diesel was cheaper than gas (up to 20 % or so), and the mileage was better. The first reason is no longer valid; in fact, now diesel oil is for the first time ever more expensive (3%) than gas. Modern TD s are still more fuel efficient than gas engines, but this is also quickly changing. Last generation turbo gas engines (VW TSI, TFSI and others) have greatly reduced the distance. They will probably never reach diesels, but the difference is much lower than it was a mere 10 years ago.
Also, to achieve this current performance, modern common-rail TDs are even more packed with ECUs, hi-tech valving, precision-engineered rotating parts, extreme pressure pumps and injectors than a gas engine. Thus the legendary durability of good ole' simple diesels is long ago history.
Another reason for many people preferring diesel engines is a (false) impression that they are more "powerful" having the same HP's. This is nonsense from a technical point of view, but torque and its relationship to power and rpms is a really difficult to understand concept. It has beeb very cleverly used by advertisement to attract buyers who can't tell "torque" from "Torx". The way of driving highly influences the perceived power, and the typical low-rpms shifting of the average driver favours the TD engines, which usually have max torque at a lower engine speed. Of course they also have a narrower usable range, after which the power abruptly drops. Gas engines are much more elastic from low rpms to red line, but most drivers will never use the full range.

Now let's get back to the HDJ100/UZJ100. The two only reasons I would consider buying the HDJ100 would be lower operating costs and higher range. A 450 km range is not really a problem while driving in Spain, it even isn't if you drive down to Morocco. It is if you travel further to, say, Mauritania. Anyway, the declared average mileage is 16,6 l/100 km for the UZJ, vs. 12,6 l/100 km for the HDJ. I can't say it's a negligible difference.
Other than that, the 4.7 is more powerful (235 HP vs. 204 HP), quieter, smoother and more responsive to the gas pedal than the 4.2 TD.

Derek, I don't know the US market. But most diesel passenger cars in Spain (and I believe in the rest of Europe) are at least slightly more expensive than their gas counterparts, with same equipment annd HP. There are some notable exceptions though, like BMW and MB.

BTW, the HDJ80 used the hybrid electrical system you mention. 24V for starting, 12V for everything else. Later models (HDJ100, KZJ90, KDJ120, etc.) use a simple 12V system. Even if they have a dual battery setup, these are just in parallel.

Sorry for the brick.

[100 TD]

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

I am very ignorant about diesel...................... pertained to 40 series so that may explain it.

Yep I think UR right. No Probs!

Originally Posted by hoser

.............

Yeah, I agree, LHD is not necessary but is nice in case of a difference in the wiring harnesses (other than just the engine harness). Like you said, the ECU might just plug in but in the likely case it doesn't, you'd have the complete harness. If in the case somebody got a hold of a manual tranny TD 100, there would some useful parts... pedals, shifter, clutch hydraulics, brackets, center console, etc.

Yes but you guys don't get the manual transmisionss so I haven't worried about commenting on them. The main concern I have is total plug and play. (meaning just plug it in to your existing harness and away you go, that's how I'd like it to be)
Your main harness is the same as ours "probably", I haven't checked, but how the ECU and plug in sub-harnesses use the wiring is another matter. (I'd love to help out in the conversion, then again bring a US rig to OZ and lets do it here!)

Originally Posted by twstrchasr

I drove a new GL 320 diesel a few weeks ago in Dallas and:

A) It wasn't noisy...... It didn't stink........I think it was, in all probability quicker\ faster than my 4.7 100

AMAZING things these diesels, IIRC there is a desel car, maybe VW?, more fuel efficient than the Prius!

Originally Posted by twstrchasr

The diesel issue is well documented in other threads on MUD so I will not repeat what has been covered already. It is a complex issue that, in the end, lies on personal preferences, needs and wants. In the end...To each his own !!

Yeah some people with droop have a soft time getting to the job at hand.

In the good ole USA you buy what you want. Enjoy your smelly POC diesel engines.[/quote]Yep, a certain percentage of folks in the good ole USA do what they want, and stick their head in the sand, and make things worse for the rest of the population of the world and their close neighbors in the street and their children (including their own children and grand kids) but unfortunately they have the right to be like that in the good ole USA.