[ShottsUZJ100]

PERFECT TIMING! Having replaced every other bushing under the rear of my 100, the lower arms bushings were finally gone as well. You should hear it articulate! EEK! So, the plan was to buy a set of Slee HD Lower Control Arms for the 80-series and install them onto the 100. This would require buying 80-series bolts, washers, and nuts as the 100 takes a smaller bolt-set. Then, to fit, we'd need to drill out the holes on the four arm mounts to 80-series size so the hardware fits. (Easy) The day I was going to order Slee's I seen the review of Wild West Fab's new high-clearance arms in 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine. The review by 4WDTO was excellent and the idea of added clearance was killer. The arm is of a bent design which adds needed ground clearance. I changed my mind and ordered from Wild West instead. (The same 80-series hardware was needed so I ordered that as well for about $40) Then the call came from Tim at WWF a few days later....."Hey, we're working on a second generation design, do you want to wait a week or so for those?". Tim explained that they are adding a on-arm "skid" to the front end of the arm where it attaches to the bushing tube. "This will add even more strength in the most vulnerable area of the arm" Tim said. I told him YES....I'll wait.

Info on his First Gen arms are in the mag:





Full details here. Watch for updates.

John Shotts (shottscruisers) : photos : Wild West Off-Road 2nd Generation High-Clearance Lower Control Arms- powered by SmugMug

While waiting for the arms I was observing one other POSSIBLE issue for use on the 100.

***We know the arms for the 100 and 80 are the same length. The mounts on both vehicles do differ some. While we're waiting for the arms, let's take a peek at the mounts to see if we anticipate any other issues. Here's a pic of the 80-series front mount. Looks like plenty of room for the larger bushing tube. And 4WDTO Mag already verified that. [:>)



***Here's the 100's mount. Looks like plenty of room as well for the larger tubing. WAIT....It looks like the top of the mount ends closer to the arm than in the 80. Considering these new arms will begin more parallel to the ground before articulation, will they hit the mount (semicircle above arm) when compressed? Let's verify......



***Here's a shot of the 80's semicircle area. It's about 1.5" from the stock arm top.



***Whoa! It's a tad under 1.25" on the 100. Less room to move before contact. WHOA #2.....The difference could be the angle of the arms on these trucks. The 100 sits at 3" and the 80 sits at 7". That means the 80's arm is at a greater angle and therefore it's farther from the frame's semicircle area. We shall see when we get the new arms. Meanwhile, we MIGHT need to trim the semicircle a tad so contact is not made on full compression.

[Tom B]

Great find John, keep us up to date. I would definetly like to see matching photos of before and after clearance. My arms are getting pretty scratched up, and I've had to back off obstacles several times due to not clearing them.

On a slightly different topic, what are people doing about protecting the arm mounts and how strong are the Toyota mounts? Slee recommended not welding on a slider plate, but mine are starting to look pretty mashed up.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Tom B

Great find John, keep us up to date. I would definetly like to see matching photos of before and after clearance. My arms are getting pretty scratched up, and I've had to back off obstacles several times due to not clearing them.

On a slightly different topic, what are people doing about protecting the arm mounts and how strong are the Toyota mounts? Slee recommended not welding on a slider plate, but mine are starting to look pretty mashed up.

Plan on the clearance pics

My 3/8 steel skids have held on the '93, '01 and now the '97. Wild West Off Road also has a plan for these as well.

[sleeoffroad]

Or you could just buy the arms from us that fit and have the correct hardware.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

Or you could just buy the arms from us that fit and have the correct hardware.

Well that was the plan as I wrote. I've been Slee-ified over the years.

These intrigued me as they offer more clearance. We shall see.........

[spressomon]

Christo: Counterpoint regarding the WWOR bent control arm design?

[sleeoffroad]

I can see limited situations where the arm might not make contact. However if the rock is that big, then the axle is still going to hit it eventually.

The only time where I think it will help is if it clears a rock for enough time until the tire can start climbing so that the axle tube gets out of the way.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by sleeoffroad

The only time where I think it will help is if it clears a rock for enough time until the tire can start climbing so that the axle tube gets out of the way.

This is what I picture. How much difference will they actually make? Are the arms as strong as yours? We shall see. It will be good to have ONE non-Slee part on my truck!

[ats4x4dotcom]

We have found the most advantage if wanting a J arm design, in extending the front of lower rear arm mounts another 250mm further forward, with a lift, to allow the axle angles to transfer drive to the tyre better.

Changing one end to a uniball cup and 1" uniball with high mis spacers machined to fit into the standard arm fittings, and take the standard bolt are also very easy to do, and allow the same travel, but with less stress trying to flex the bushes.

We have found johhny joints harder to fint into the standard arm mounts on cruiser, than the uniball set ups.

[ginericLC]

You know the one thing I've thought about is how many times those arms have saved me from screwing up a rear driveshaft. With these arms the driveshaft becomes the low point on the truck.

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

I'll chime in since I am the lucky first buyer of the Wild West Offroad Fab high-clearance arms

Lots of high-quality aftermarket, straight rear arms are available, and all have one thing in common--they are heavily beefed up. Now why would they all be made ultra heavy-duty unless lower control arms are vulnerable to impacts and damage, right? Exactly...because the designers know, as we owners do as well, that the OEM arms are vulnerable. They WILL take hits off-road and they are much too weak to handle it. John uses welded-on steel to reinforce his in anticipation of this. In short, aftermarket heavy duty arms are actually made to impact, grind on and bounce off rocks; while the Wild West arms are made to clear over them with no contact.

So we know OEM arms are a weak/low hanging point, and the aftermarket has responded with arms built to withstand those impacts--there is clearly a market for them. Now, any impact is going to be an impediment to forward progress. If we can avoid impacts, our momentum isn't affected, and our ability to get over the obstacle is greatly increased. With these arms, you don't hit as many rocks to begin with, so trails and obstacles are easier to compete. If you do hit them, the Wild West arms are plenty heavy duty enough to handle it.

One other thing to keep in mind is whenever a lower control arm makes contact with an obstacle before the tire does, the arm is unloading the tire to a certain degree, thereby lessening the contact pressure. In effect, lifting the tire off the ground and decreasing overall traction at that corner.

I've taken the Wild West high-clearance arms across the Rubicon and will do so again here in a few weeks for the Rubithon run and let me tell you, it's great having one less thing to catch my 80-series Cruiser on. The less hits, the higher clearance, the better!

Cheers,

[Boston Mangler]

Originally Posted by ginericLC

You know the one thing I've thought about is how many times those arms have saved me from screwing up a rear driveshaft. With these arms the driveshaft becomes the low point on the truck.

Excellent point!

[LandCruisers4Life]

I really don't care about the 'J' portion - I'd just like to have some heavier duty LCAs that can take a beating. That's all I care about. Clearance is minimal from what I can see from those pictures, and I mean MINIMAL. You're not really gaining much of anything, and as stated by others, the LCAs offer other more expensive parts some degree of protection by being there.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Boston Mangler

Excellent point!

True....though two thoughts on this......

1. They make HD driveshafts too.

2. In my experience...maybe it's the trails I run...whatever, When I seem to catch an arm and hang which stops me in my tracks, it almost always seems to be on one side only. There's no threat to the other side or the driveshaft. It's turning up a ledge, over one big rock, etc. I'm sure there will be times when both arms hang. And yes, I've mangled a rear shaft on the 100. We shall see.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by LandCruisers4Life

Clearance is minimal from what I can see from those pictures, and I mean MINIMAL. You're not really gaining much of anything, and as stated by others

Well, of all the postees there's only one person who has tried these arms. He stated they were a huge help. Whatchoo been reading?

[ginericLC]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Well, of all the postees there's only one person who has tried these arms. He stated they were a huge help. Whatchoo been reading?

I read the article. If I had my 80 still I'd probably be a buyer. I don't know maybe I'll be a buyer for the 100? I'd like to see a set in person.

[dclee]

I suddenly see a big market for all those bent OEM arms that we all have laying around collecting dust...

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Good discussions here.

On the driveshaft comment, I took our 80-series across the Con with the WWOR arms and our shaft was in great condition at the end. One is always conscious of the rear diff placement anyway and it's a priority to avoid contact, as it is a sure detriment to progress if hung on a rock, not to mention yoke, driveshaft or even major pumpkin damage.

On the clearance being "minimal"--not at all, we're actually talking a minimum of 3 1/2 inches of additional clearance. I just went out and measured and the high point of the WWOR bar is approximately 14 1/2 inches off the ground at its curve point. I'd LOVE to have 3 1/2 more inches of clearance under my Cruiser as a whole (heck, who wouldn't?), but without upgrading our 35" tires to 39's it's kinda hard. But 3.5 inches (minimum) of additional clearance is pretty substantial in the wheeling world.

Point in fact: look at the clockable transfer case adapters Marlin sells. You gain 1 3/16" clearance with it. Marlin's rotated crossmember gets you 3" inches more clearance. Clearance is the name of the wheeling game--or at least a major part of it--and many parts are made just for this reason.

I just don't see the point in hanging up on ANY rock. Any impact hurts progress.

[Dandon]

BTW, I wonder how bad it is to have a bent OEM LCA. How does it affect driving, handling, etc.? I got my left one slightly bent (about 1 cm off in the middle) recently, but I don't know if it's really necessary to fix/ replace it, or if I can just let it be.

[gearguywb]

I bent one on my FJC pretty badly....I could not tell it was bent from "feel".

I have also found that the control arms will certainly bend, but IMHO just as importantly, is that the mounting point can be bent pretty bad from a hardish impact. Don't ask me how I know

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine

Good discussions here.

On the driveshaft comment, I took our 80-series across the Con with the WWOR arms and our shaft was in great condition at the end. One is always conscious of the rear diff placement anyway and it's a priority to avoid contact, as it is a sure detriment to progress if hung on a rock, not to mention yoke, driveshaft or even major pumpkin damage.

On the clearance being "minimal"--not at all, we're actually talking a minimum of 3 1/2 inches of additional clearance. I just went out and measured and the high point of the WWOR bar is approximately 14 1/2 inches off the ground at its curve point. I'd LOVE to have 3 1/2 more inches of clearance under my Cruiser as a whole (heck, who wouldn't?), but without upgrading our 35" tires to 39's it's kinda hard. But 3.5 inches (minimum) of additional clearance is pretty substantial in the wheeling world.

Point in fact: look at the clockable transfer case adapters Marlin sells. You gain 1 3/16" clearance with it. Marlin's rotated crossmember gets you 3" inches more clearance. Clearance is the name of the wheeling game--or at least a major part of it--and many parts are made just for this reason.

I just don't see the point in hanging up on ANY rock. Any impact hurts progress.

IMHO COG is fairly important as well. Gaining clearance without sacrificing COG is the real trick.

The one time impacting rocks can be beneficial is when you ride your slider over a rock and use that action to pivot your rig through a tight turn. Probably not a maneuver the average 100 owner will have much occasion to use.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by rusty_tlc

Probably not a maneuver the average 100 owner will have much occasion to use.

Nor will the AVERAGE 80 owner.

I've done this several times. In fact, an ARB locked rig is even better than an OEM locked rig. You want your ass end to REALLY pivot around a rock?

UNlock CENTER
Lock ARB rear

TURN/PIVOT ON A DIME! Ask me how I know.

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Well, of all the postees there's only one person who has tried these arms. He stated they were a huge help. Whatchoo been reading?

Well, to put his comments into context, it would be interesting to see if he paid full price as the first "buyer" as he stated, and/or if any article was mentioned during the purchase discussions, to give any credit to someone who has an opportunity to assist his buy prices, by stating good intent, on such products.

Perhaps if he were to come back to us on his buy price, and wether promoting them in any way was a part of the purchase price, so people could tell how much to value his opinion.

Should that not happen, we can only wait for someone with a truly impartial view, to post findings.

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Whatever, dude.

Paying for a part or not has nothing to do with my review, nor ANY review in 4WD Toyota Owner magazine--period. Talk to anyone who was part of my group across the Rubicon for Marlin Crawler's Roundup in 2007. Jason from Locktup.com would be a good start. Trail tested speaks for itself in front of plenty of wheeling witnesses. The Wild West arms kicked ass on a run that went from Loon to the Springs in a day, easily.

I stand by my words, money ain't got nothing to do with it. Either they perform and hold up to abuse, or they don't. Pictures say it all--Nuff said.

Oh and those are Snake Racing's caster corrected front arms on it, too.

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Marlin's run 2007

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Wild West arms NOT hitting rock when normal ones would have.

[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

last pics of Rubicon test

[ats4x4dotcom]

So if you disagree with me, you paid full price, and an article wasnt discussed as part of the "supply agreement" ???

Were there any "standard arm" 80's on the trip, that couldnt go where you did when testing?

I see the tailshaft has become the lowset point, where its rubbing on the rock in one pic there too.

[ShottsUZJ100]

David: Let it go bro. You will not win with him. It's not worth the war. Oh, and congrats for getting your mag onto the Barnes and Nobles stand!

When I get the arms on I'll review. I PAID FULL PRICE BY THE WAY.

I do know the future though. If my review and testing goes well, this dude will have another reason to doubt the results. I think he'll tell me that 0.6" clearance improvement is meaningless.

[e9999]

let's stay nice, eh!