[4WD Toyota Owner Magazine]

Roger that, both of ya, and even to ATS I just got riled over him saying the review was some kind of sellout trade of a product for a feature story. If they would have failed on the Rubicon, everyone, especially me, would have known about it, and written it. It's all good.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

The V-Chip is blocking the signal!

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by 4WD Toyota Owner Magazine

Roger that, both of ya, and even to ATS I just got riled over him saying the review was some kind of sellout trade of a product for a feature story.

I never said "it was a sellout" I said, for your information to be taken as an objective opinion, it would be great to know the details the transaction was based on.

They made the Con, great, so have normal arms, no one is disputing that, I simply gave you the opportunity to explain how objective your opinion on the arms were, and I quote,

"Perhaps if he were to come back to us on his buy price, and wether promoting them in any way was a part of the purchase price, so people could tell how much to value his opinion.

Should that not happen, we can only wait for someone with a truly impartial view, to post findings."

No one was accused of anything, but simply offered an opportunity to explain.

[assassinoffroad]

And just a quick note

http://forum.ih8mud.com/chit-chat-se...ml#post3334338

have changed ID and am no longer using ats4x4 user name, and have changed my ID to this one.

also need to get 10 posts done to get full access.

[ShottsUZJ100]

OK, the arms are in. There are REALLY HEAVY DUTY. I am glad I waited. VERY GLAD. The pics don't do justice. These arms are HUGE....almost slider huge. I waited until the last minute to take pics so they aren't that great. Once they are on (later today) I'll take better ones.

I luv the newly added skid plates on the second gen models. Should help to protect the weld making them even stronger!



The rear of the bar touts a skid as well.



Bent arms offer added clearance compared to straight ones.



TEST: Pretend this is a ledge or rock you need to climb. Resting on the arm will stop progress unless you hit it and risk bending.



You need about 6-more inches before the tire climbs the "ledge". Will the new arms afford the needed clearance to climb the "ledge"? Check back AFTER the arms are on.

[yoter100]

Cant wait to see them installed! Im jealous! Hurry with the installation pics!

By the description (almost slider beefy?) they sound greattt!

I want a pair! ahhhh

[yoter100]

Oh and how much idd they run you? Without the $40 80 series hardware?

thanks

[ShottsUZJ100]

WHOA NELLIE! My mechanic just called. From center of bolt hole to bolt hole these arms are 7/8" LONGER than stock. 100 arms and 80 arms are the same length, just a different bushing. SOMEBODY made a boo-boo. These won't work on either truck. I'm picking the 100 up soon. Will contact WW Off-Road tomorrow.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by yoter100

Oh and how much idd they run you? Without the $40 80 series hardware?

thanks

Hilarious! I forgot! $450? Crud.......I'll find out.

[dclee]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

WHOA NELLIE! My mechanic just called. From center of bolt hole to bolt hole these arms are 7/8" LONGER than stock. 100 arms and 80 arms are the same length, just a different bushing. SOMEBODY made a boo-boo. These won't work on either truck. I'm picking the 100 up soon. Will contact WW Off-Road tomorrow.

That might actually not be a problem. My old 80 arms were custom made to be (IIRC) 0.5" longer than stock, in order to properly locate the wheel in the well after lifting. As you know, as you lift the truck, the wheel effectively moves forward due to the angle of the arms (sort of like the axle also moves sideways due to the Panhard rod as you lift). So this may be designed purposely in order to put the tire back where it was pre-lift, in terms of wheelbase at least.

Or it could be mistake, I guess... Let us know what WWOR says.

edit: Also helps keep the diff flange properly lined up with the t-case output flange.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by dclee

That might actually not be a problem. My old 80 arms were custom made to be (IIRC) 0.5" longer than stock, in order to properly locate the wheel in the well after lifting. As you know, as you lift the truck, the wheel effectively moves forward due to the angle of the arms (sort of like the axle also moves sideways due to the Panhard rod as you lift). So this may be designed purposely in order to put the tire back where it was pre-lift, in terms of wheelbase at least.

Or it could be mistake, I guess... Let us know what WWOR says.

edit: Also helps keep the diff flange properly lined up with the t-case output flange.

I thought of that and actually wondered why aftermarket arms aren't a tad longer.....then I thought about my truck...........

Won't work on mine. I already rub the Slee bumper at full compression. Another inch would cause crap. I don't have any more room rearward for the tire.

I'm vibration free. Changing the angle via longer lower arms without also changing upper arms to correct might bring in vibration.

[Morty]

Yea, x2 please let us know what you find out. I've been waiting to order a set of these until you installed yours and could give some feedback.

[dclee]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

I'm vibration free. Changing the angle via longer lower arms without also changing upper arms to correct might bring in vibration.

You are now, but I'm willing to bet that you're at the upper limit of tolerance for the U-joints. You can't defy the laws of physics...

You may not have vibrations now, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're wearing your U-joints, and the vibes will develop in time.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by dclee

You are now, but I'm willing to bet that you're at the upper limit of tolerance for the U-joints. You can't defy the laws of physics...

You may not have vibrations now, but I wouldn't be surprised if you're wearing your U-joints, and the vibes will develop in time.

Better to replace U-joints every 150K than have a suspension setup that stops you in your tracks from rubbing every time you articulate.

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Better to replace U-joints every 150K than have a suspension setup that stops you in your tracks from rubbing every time you articulate.

John: I wonder why you have tire rub on your Slee bumper? I only rubbed on the inner fender wall at max articulation...not the bumper itself. What would be so different between our two rigs to cause your rubbing?

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by spressomon

John: I wonder why you have tire rub on your Slee bumper? I only rubbed on the inner fender wall at max articulation...not the bumper itself. What would be so different between our two rigs to cause your rubbing?

I've not seen pics of yours articulating. All I can say is that mine is increcible.

It's rubbing right here though not quote enough to halt progress. Another half inch would kill me, let alone another 7/8".

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

I've not seen pics of yours articulating. All I can say is that mine is increcible.

It's rubbing right here though not quote enough to halt progress. Another half inch would kill me, let alone another 7/8".

It's still strange...same frame/body, same size tires, same rear bumper, same lift, same shocks (you have the 74L which are longer...but you have upside +2" bump stops I don't have...), stock upper and lower control arms (then). I am comparing when I had the OME set-up installed...

[Trunk Monkey]

Get profile shots of the side wings of the bumpers and how are they're sticking into each of yours' wheel wells. Could just be difference in manufacture of bumpers.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by spressomon

but you have upside +2" bump stops I don't have.

I know in "measurement terms" the bumpstops should reduce 2" of up-travel. Reality is (from all our observations) that once the stop hits the axle, the axle then seems to rotate even more on that bumpstop. It takes on a teeter-totter effect and that tire just turns in angle-wise big time while the axle doens't move up any more. I think it's because of the added droop on the other side. It's hard to explain but the setup works and adds a lot.

The axle is also VERY crooked when flexed in that pic. The stuffed wheel is far rearward and the drooped far forward. I guarantee you that IF I had a shorter shock on the drooped side and the long ones on the stuffed side, I'd not rub. Of course you can't use that setup.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

I know in "measurement terms" the bumpstops should reduce 2" of up-travel. Reality is (from all our observations) that once the stop hits the axle, the axle then seems to rotate even more on that bumpstop. It takes on a teeter-totter effect and that tire just turns in angle-wise big time while the axle doens't move up any more. I think it's because of the added droop on the other side. It's hard to explain but the setup works and adds a lot.

The axle is also VERY crooked when flexed in that pic. The stuffed wheel is far rearward and the drooped far forward. I guarantee you that IF I had a shorter shock on the drooped side and the long ones on the stuffed side, I'd not rub. Of course you can't use that setup.

Check out the turn-in on the rear axle:

[ShottsUZJ100]

Just spoke to Tim from WWOR. He's already got modified arms completed and going to paint tomorrow and we hadn't even spoke yet! Talk about service! He made the decision based on my posts! I should have them within a week. I'll re-post when complete.

Tim's going to be able to make either length....stock or stock plus ~7/8th. This way he'll have stock-length arms so to work with any lift kit without increasing rubbing. Then the longer arms that correct for pinion angle and will work for other appllications where rubbing is not an issue (ie...lift height vs bumper type vs shock length vs tire size, etc).

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Just spoke to Tim from WWOR. He's already got modified arms completed and going to paint tomorrow and we hadn't even spoke yet! Talk about service! He made the decision based on my posts! I should have them within a week. I'll re-post when complete.

Tim's going to be able to make either length....stock or stock plus ~7/8th. This way he'll have stock-length arms so to work with any lift kit without increasing rubbing. Then the longer arms that correct for pinion angle and will work for other appllications where rubbing is not an issue (ie...lift height vs bumper type vs shock length vs tire size, etc).

The other option for adjusting the pinion angle back down would be to utilize shorter/adjustable upper rear control arms. Then you can stay with the stock length lower control arms.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by spressomon

The other option for adjusting the pinion angle back down would be to utilize shorter/adjustable upper rear control arms. Then you can stay with the stock length lower control arms.

Exactly, which is why he's going to make stock-length arms as well. By adjusting pinion angle via adjustable upper arms you don't add in the rubbing factor longer lowers can cause.

[Tom B]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

I know in "measurement terms" the bumpstops should reduce 2" of up-travel. Reality is (from all our observations) that once the stop hits the axle, the axle then seems to rotate even more on that bumpstop. It takes on a teeter-totter effect and that tire just turns in angle-wise big time while the axle doens't move up any more. I think it's because of the added droop on the other side. It's hard to explain but the setup works and adds a lot.

I rub my Slee bumper with 863's, non-L shocks, and 2" extended bump stops. It happens quite frequently without the rear swaybar on, less with it on. In addition, 35's (BFG AT's, no wheel spacers) don't really fit in the front without lowering the bump stops or adding a BL. Ask my front fender!

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Tom B

I rub my Slee bumper with 863's, non-L shocks, and 2" extended bump stops. It happens quite frequently without the rear swaybar on, less with it on. In addition, 35's (BFG AT's, no wheel spacers) don't really fit in the front without lowering the bump stops or adding a BL. Ask my front fender!

Interesting. I'm am 100% glad now that I didn't try the longer arms.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Arms are on. Sweet! Info coming in a couple of days!

[NMuzj100]

Originally Posted by Tom B

On a slightly different topic, what are people doing about protecting the arm mounts and how strong are the Toyota mounts? Slee recommended not welding on a slider plate, but mine are starting to look pretty mashed up.

Something like this looks pretty good.





How's your French ?

http://www.egal16.com/accessoires

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by NMuzj100

Something like this looks pretty good.





How's your French ?

http://www.egal16.com/accessoires

That protects though it reduces ground clearance which is the main issue in the first place. The low slung arms are the weak spot on the 80/100 series. A true solution addresses both issues. WWWOR arms solve both troubles.

[ShottsUZJ100]

I CAN SEE WHY ZARTMAN GAVE THE REVIEW HE GAVE! Dear Lord.....why has nobody made arms like these until now?

The 80 and 100 series super weak spot wheeling-wise are these frickin' arms. They are long, hang down and catch everything. When they catch you stop, or you hop, or you bend, or you get strapped.

Aftermarket arms don't address this. Sure, they are stronger but you still hang. HOW IN THE HELL HAVE 80-WHEELERS LIVED WITHOUT ARMS LIKE THESE WWOR ALL THESE YEARS? NUTS!

Pic one....the cooler is your rock/ledge. You are stopped in your tracks.
Pic two....the cooler is your rock/ledge. Your tire simply climbs up. The difference in clearance is amazing!




This pic allows you to visually see the gained clearance over a straight arm. It also shows the new 2nd Gen skid on the bottom front of the bar which adds more strength (Zartman's didn't have these). WOW!



Lastly....Those arms are tucked out of the way and for good. Add in the super strong steel over stock....cool! Looking at the 100, the rear drive shaft looks like it's still higher above ground compared to the arms. That's good as well.

Last pic shows you the change. Before in the rough stuff you had to place your vehicle so these would clear:

L arm
R arm
Driveshaft

Now....position your vehicle to clear the rear shaft and that's it!



TIM LUND HAS A WINNER HERE! THIS IS A MUST FOR ANY SERIOUS 80 OR 100 SERIES FOUR-WHEELER. THE PICS DON'T LIE! WHERE OH WHERE HAVE THESE BEEN? The 80's have been out for 17-years!

By the way...the install was easy. Drilled out the frame holes to 80-size and slapped on 80 hardware....done.

[-Spike-]

Good deal John, thanks for the write-up. The arms definitely make a big difference, and I'd be ordering the stock length arms myself since I already have adjustable uppers. Thanks for working out that 'bug'.

-Spike