Carl's new front Upper Control Arms review

[rusty_tlc]

Originally Posted by CaliCruiser

Dude that sounds awesome, how about a Deer Valley Challenge? Oh wait that thread got closed. . .

Install sounds pretty cool Dan, lets jump it and test the droop.

Dylan

I don't think you'll see my 100 on Deer Valley anytime soon.


Maybe we can peer pressure him into doing Bronco Canyon to test the new suspension.

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by spressomon

I'm taking this right off the alignment print out:

"After" measurements:

Camber: Left front: .09 degrees / Right Front: .00 degrees

Caster: Left front: 1.48 degrees / Right front: 1.54 degrees

OK,

for you guys, some more neg on the other front would stop the vehicle from wearing the outer edge of the front tyre, especially with taller tyres, if your local roads are 'crowned" in the centre.

[1loudLX]

NEGATIVE CAMBER FTW!!!!

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by ats4x4dotcom

Uhm... camber..... not castor

We like to run 3/4-1 deg neg with 35 and up tyre sizes, for better turn in.

These arms would help with tyre rub when we do this with 35's.

Darren: How are you getting the caster back to near stock with lifted 100 IFS without modding upper/lower control arms?

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by spressomon

The difference with my set-up is night and day. The truck is once again near stock stable at highway speeds (75mph) and a pure joy to drive again due to the lack of "nervous steering" that results from not enough caster.

Nice write up. Glad you are happy, though your statement has me wondering.....

I am wondering what was wrong with your specific truck before the mod? My 100 is very stable to and above 75 MPH the way it is now. I experience no "nervous steering" or any other handling issues.

No 100 with any "arms", all the added weight, and 315's is ever going to be "stock stable". Riding recently in a stock 100 with 33's the noticed the highway ride LESS stable due to the softer suspension compared to my 100.

I'm not disputing your results and am enthused you are happy. That said, I cannot imagine a "night and day" difference. I can see a slight improvement maybe?

[dclee]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

I'm not disputing your results and am enthused you are happy. That said, I cannot imagine a "night and day" difference. I can see a slight improvement maybe?

In your opinion. It's all relative. To some who are very in tune to the performance of their machinery, what might seem a slight change to some is in fact a very significant change to them.

edit: I only went up 1" on my 100. To me, that slight change made a very significant alteration to the handling of the vehicle at highway speeds. I was very much aware of it. But my sensibilities might come from years of driving high performance Mercs and Bimmers. Mercedes steering is very dead, but the design purpose is stability at 200 kph on the autobahn, where a sneeze can launch you off the road. BMW sets up their steering very differently, which is part of the reason they have that near telepathic steering feeling. Because of their caster settings. Slight differences that translate to very different real-world results.

[spressomon]

John...lets just say it made more than .6" of difference to me .

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by spressomon

John...lets just say it made more than .6" of difference to me .

.....

[ShottsUZJ100]

Good answers. I was expecting more though.

I think my question was a good one. With EVERYBODY posting how much better their 100 handled AFTER the lift I was bamboozled when I read how your 100 drove so poorly. I figured shock-type or some other trouble with the truck. I'll accept your .6" answer however. Enjoy!

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Good answers. I was expecting more though.

I think my question was a good one. With EVERYBODY posting how much better their 100 handled AFTER the lift I was bamboozled when I read how your 100 drove so poorly. I figured shock-type or some other trouble with the truck. I'll accept your .6" answer however. Enjoy!

John, those who have some mechanical apptitude, and can understand how a vehicle dynamic works, generally take about 1 month of use to get over the 'excitement" of the new lift, and start to realise little things tht arent as good, once the shine has worn off, so to speak.

One of these area's is wheel alignment, and another is weight transfer, both which change a lot, when lifting a vehicle.

It is very difficult to get a vehicle to drive like a std height vehicle, with 3" or more of lift, and its certainly beyond the realms of possible on a budget, or for most "accessory fitters" wether in a shop, or at home.

When it comes to handling, most people think they know what it is, without knowing how to get it there, or whats involved in making it handle, but they think "it feels great".

This doesnt mean its good.

[dclee]

After the lift, my truck certainly "handled" better going around a corner. Firmer springs, better-valved dampers.

However, it also certainly had less steering stability at high speed. Caster.

Apples and oranges (or maybe apples and pear-apples). It's not rocket science.

[rusty_tlc]

Ride quality is very subjective.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by ats4x4dotcom

John, those who have some mechanical apptitude, and can understand how a vehicle dynamic works, generally take about 1 month of use to get over the 'excitement" of the new lift, and start to realise little things tht arent as good, once the shine has worn off, so to speak.

One of these area's is wheel alignment, and another is weight transfer, both which change a lot, when lifting a vehicle.

It is very difficult to get a vehicle to drive like a std height vehicle, with 3" or more of lift, and its certainly beyond the realms of possible on a budget, or for most "accessory fitters" wether in a shop, or at home.

When it comes to handling, most people think they know what it is, without knowing how to get it there, or whats involved in making it handle, but they think "it feels great".

This doesnt mean its good.

Agree! Though handling is still subjective. Some prefer soft and cushy handling while some prefer a more stiff ride with better reaction. Ride quality isn't just about which suspension is "technically the best and most proper set up".

When I bought my used LX450 I was queezy on the 2-hour drive home. All the thing did was sway side to side which later I discovered was normal for the LX due to really soft suspension components. EEK! How could any old fart drive that thing daily? I can see how a 2.5" OME suspension would be a huge improvement (for most) despite some change in dynamics. My LX is at 7+" and while it doesn't make me queezy it rides like XXXX though it handles OK with the front arm change. High speeds? I fear for the possible emergency manuever as my track is still at stock.

On a 100? The OEM ride was very good, controlled, though a tad on the soft side (for me). Adding a OME lift and taking it up a tad to the max (2.75", etc) firms the ride and in my opinion without changing the dynamics much at all. I preferred the high speed highway ride though the quick turn-ins around town left a desire for a bit more down travel. Lane changes are better with OME.

Sorry though....I cannot believe the verbage I read regarding the upper arm/caster change ON THIS VEHICLE, the 100. I would have believed reading a "small improvement was made on highway", but that't it. I could be wrong though I don't buy it. We're not talking about a 6" lifted 100 that had bad caster before the upgrade. If the improvement on his truck was that great then I question the setup and/or technical issue before the change. Maybe the Fox shocks, though all we heard about when they went on was how great they handled. ???

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Agree! Though handling is still subjective. Some prefer soft and cushy handling while some prefer a more stiff ride with better reaction. Ride quality isn't just about which suspension is "technically the best and most proper set up".

When I bought my used LX450 I was queezy on the 2-hour drive home. All the thing did was sway side to side which later I discovered was normal for the LX due to really soft suspension components. EEK! How could any old fart drive that thing daily? I can see how a 2.5" OME suspension would be a huge improvement (for most) despite some change in dynamics. My LX is at 7+" and while it doesn't make me queezy it rides like XXXX though it handles OK with the front arm change. High speeds? I fear for the possible emergency manuever as my track is still at stock.

On a 100? The OEM ride was very good, controlled, though a tad on the soft side (for me). Adding a OME lift and taking it up a tad to the max (2.75", etc) firms the ride and in my opinion without changing the dynamics much at all. I preferred the high speed highway ride though the quick turn-ins around town left a desire for a bit more down travel. Lane changes are better with OME.

Sorry though....I cannot believe the verbage I read regarding the upper arm/caster change ON THIS VEHICLE, the 100. I would have believed reading a "small improvement was made on highway", but that't it. I could be wrong though I don't buy it. We're not talking about a 6" lifted 100 that had bad caster before the upgrade. If the improvement on his truck was that great then I question the setup and/or technical issue before the change. Maybe the Fox shocks, though all we heard about when they went on was how great they handled. ???

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by spressomon

Laugh....but who are you kidding?

There's a boatload of 3" lifted Cruisers running 35's who have a great driving truck and that includes at 75MPH. Hell, you should see the quick lane changes I do at 75MPH. There's no "nervous steering" on my truck. There shouldn't be on the other reader's 100's either. If there were we'd see a ton of threads about it and caster......like we see in the 80 forum with their taller lifts.

Again, you wrote:

"The difference with my set-up is night and day. The truck is once again near stock stable at highway speeds (75mph) and a pure joy to drive again due to the lack of "nervous steering" that results from not enough caster. The caster could not be returned to bona-fide stock amount but its darn close...close enough to notice a night/day difference/comparison."

"Night and Day"
"Pure Joy to Drive" (Wasn't it before? What about your previous comments? Others are not complaining about their ride. ??)
"Nervous Steering"

Your words make it seem you got the arms for free. Kidding! I will say this...IF I ever experience my 100's handling being transformed "night and day" from it's 3" lifted and 35-inch state....it will be because I returned it to stock, slapped on 275 LTX's and took all the crap off it. If your 100 was not a "pure joy to ride" before the arm swap, then something was up with it before...........we shall never know.

[Tom B]

Originally Posted by ringpinion.biz

The arms alone do not gain you any down travel. However, they allow for longer shocks, which allow more down travel. On these trucks with about 3" lift, there is only about 1.5" downtravel which is not much. I believe I am at twice that. The actual measurement of travel does not really tell you how the actual ride is improved. I am running limiting straps to prevent damage to the cv's and steering components. Care must be taken with these sort of mods.

Are there any other bolt-on aftermarket shocks that are firmer than the OME's that will take advantage of this extra travel other than the custom Fox setup?

I would be interested to hear a new down travel measurement and rim to fender measurement.

[ShottsUZJ100]

Originally Posted by Tom B

Are there any other bolt-on aftermarket shocks that are firmer than the OME's

N199 though nobody has tested them yet. I'd be willing to though I don't think I'd buy them just to test. The spec called for a VERY HEAVY vehicle with LOADED ROOF RACK. I don't have a rack.......I don't know though......they will bolt on and might work well on a heavy vehicle WITHOUT a rack too. We'll find out sooner or later.

[ringpinion.biz]

There is a bilstien that is a bit longer than stock 100 shock and is bolt-in dimensions.

Originally Posted by Tom B

Are there any other bolt-on aftermarket shocks that are firmer than the OME's that will take advantage of this extra travel other than the custom Fox setup?

I would be interested to hear a new down travel measurement and rim to fender measurement.

[LandCruisers4Life]

Has anyone tried the new Rancho shocks on the market with remote reservoir??

[ats4x4dotcom]

Originally Posted by ShottsUZJ100

Laugh....but who are you kidding?

There's a boatload of 3" lifted Cruisers running 35's who have a great driving truck and that includes at 75MPH. Hell, you should see the quick lane changes I do at 75MPH.

With a lift, 35" tyres, OME shocks, and a big spare hanging on the back, if you think your changing lanes quickly at 75mph, then your version of "quick" doesnt quite meet others expectations.

Its easy to get the above spec vehicle onto 3, or 2 wheels, without trying to hard, and if the vehicle decides to slide the rear, look out, you wont catch it, and at 90 deg to the road, start planning a convertable in the rebuild.

We work on trucks with those sort of spec every day, and build them, and thats why we wont use OME.

Handling isnt subjective, but personal taste on handling is, and ignorance doesnt help, it nornally means people end up driving around an issue and dont realise what that issue "could" create.

This is where spresso has obviously felt the vehicle driving ok, and then got the arms, got the correct alignment settings, or better than they were, and can really notice the difference.

[LandCruisers4Life]

Hey Darren, how about that Land Cruiser sticker?

[ats4x4dotcom]