what are problems with 05-07 vs 04

[FirstToy]

They moved the 100 series production to the Tahara plant, correct? Unless they did some cost cutting on parts/materials, I would think the quality to be as good or better at Tahara.

Japanese facility puts focus on details

By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News

It is the benchmark of benchmarks: Toyota Motor Co.p.’s untouchable Tahara plant on Japan’s eastern coast.

In 2003, for the second year in a row, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its highest honor — the platinum award for best quality worldwide — on the Tahara factory that produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles.

Owners of models built at the plant, including the Lexus GS 300 and 430 and LS 430 luxury sedans, reported 63 defects per 100 vehicles — about one-third fewer than owners of premium cars built at the best BMW AG and Mercedes-Benz auto plants in Germany, according to J.D. Power data.

Conceived during Japan’s economic boom, the plant was filled with robots, amid fears of labor shortages and Toyota’s great faith in automation. As one of the automaker’s newer plants, it also allowed Toyota to experiment with new manufacturing ideas and production methods.

Set on a small peninsula on the Mikawa Bay, the factory was designed to be “worker friendly” to attract a new generation of workers who had viewed factory work as dirty, arduous and dangerous.

“It’s one of the most beautiful plants, and very neat and tidy,” said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koji Endo in Tokyo. The setting is lovely, too, with fishing on the quays outside.

Built in 1979, “Tahara was actually considered a mistake because it was much too automated,” said auto analyst Maryann Keller of Maryann Keller and Associates in Greenwich, Conn. In terms of costs, “it was not a competitive factory when they built it.”

The sprawling plant is air-conditioned. Computer-controlled robots do the heavy lifting and dirty work. More than 95 percent of the stamping, welding and painting operations are automated, while plant workers focus on the trim and final assembly — the details a customer notices.

Today, Tahara produces 460,000 vehicles a year in its two body shops and three assembly plants. In addition to Lexus exports, the plant complex assembles Toyota’s domestic luxury car, the Crown, the RAV4 sport-utility vehicle and three other models.

Rival luxury automakers may murmur that Lexus cars are merely “souped-up Toyotas” because the two brands share a wide array of parts. But suppliers to Toyota know better.

Tahara sets and demands the highest standards.

Toyota, already a stickler for quality, will not accept components if defects exceed 50 per million parts shipped. In contrast, for Lexus vehicles, Tahara managers insist on fewer than 10 defects per million parts.

From the outset, former plant manager Kousuke Shiramizu, now executive vice president in charge of product and product engineering, established that the margin for error for Lexus vehicles would be half what it was at Toyota.

On average at Toyota, air leaks from car exhaust systems are held to 100 liters per minute, to reduce noise. On Lexus models produced at the Tahara plant, the ceiling is a stingy 8.6 liters of air per minute.

The plant’s strict quality checks include a final stretch of inspections for cars coming off the line under the unforgiving glare of very bright lights.

Toyota also tinkered with changes in the assembly line organization at Tahara, establishing several sub-assembly lines so temporary stoppages would not halt all production.

“Tahara’s the next plateau,” said consultant Dennis Pawley, former manufacturing chief at Chrysler. “Rather than having one continuous line, they’re going against the old adage and breaking up the line.”

Living up to Tahara’s standards keeps everyone at Toyota plants around the world on their toes.

[fzjchase]

^ Nice Read... I now have no second thoughts about purchasing a 2005 or newer Cruiser.

[LXPearl]

Any of the 100 models are excellent SUVs. As far as power goes, the major issue is torque, and the 4.7L has relatively consistent torque levels through all the model years - more in 03 and 06, but not enough to warrant selling an older model for the new one.

In my perspective, the significant improvements in the 100 happened in:

2000 introduction of TRAC/VSC, stronger front axle.

2001 improved cosmetics, incl NAV option, and for LX, the Levinson audio option.

2003 introduction of the 5spd transmission and more responsive gearing. These have more impact than the minor increase in HP and TQ. Also improved cosmetics and features. Although NAV remained an "option" the last LC without NAV I have seen is a 2002. The dealer told me they had seen an 03 without NAV (i.e. very rare).

2006 increased HP and cosmetic changes. Noticeable power but not significant enough to ditch an older model.

If I was in the market for an LC/LX at present, I would pick the one that was in the best condition for the price I could afford. Owner care and maintenance are major issues for me; I saw too many abused ones when I was looking - still asking high dollar at that.

[r3run33]

hey i agree with the last post completly also with the new models coming out there should be a boat load of trade in also widen your search you can save lots if you travel a bit; i got my old 99 in florida paid $79 for a 1 way air ticket and drove it back home similar models back then were at least 3k higher here in the north east. once again good luck

[ronin-0707]

[quote=jditom;2758039]I have a 2004 TLC and a 2008 GX. I can't feel a big difference in power. Feels like marketing to me. Is there much difference in torque? That is where you would feel the power difference.

Just to be fair since a GX is 800lbs lighter then a TLC. I drove a 2004 GX and 2008 GX back to back. Really no difference

THANKS that was the kind of info I was looking for-I guess I will need to test drive them myself as well.
By the way nice 2004...I would be in the market in the next 6 mo or so just doing my research.

[flyfish4life]

Originally Posted by FirstToy

They moved the 100 series production to the Tahara plant, correct? Unless they did some cost cutting on parts/materials, I would think the quality to be as good or better at Tahara.

Japanese facility puts focus on details

By Christine Tierney / The Detroit News

It is the benchmark of benchmarks: Toyota Motor Co.p.’s untouchable Tahara plant on Japan’s eastern coast.

In 2003, for the second year in a row, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its highest honor — the platinum award for best quality worldwide — on the Tahara factory that produces Lexus and Toyota vehicles.

Owners of models built at the plant, including the Lexus GS 300 and 430 and LS 430 luxury sedans, reported 63 defects per 100 vehicles — about one-third fewer than owners of premium cars built at the best BMW AG and Mercedes-Benz auto plants in Germany, according to J.D. Power data.

Conceived during Japan’s economic boom, the plant was filled with robots, amid fears of labor shortages and Toyota’s great faith in automation. As one of the automaker’s newer plants, it also allowed Toyota to experiment with new manufacturing ideas and production methods.

Set on a small peninsula on the Mikawa Bay, the factory was designed to be “worker friendly” to attract a new generation of workers who had viewed factory work as dirty, arduous and dangerous.

“It’s one of the most beautiful plants, and very neat and tidy,” said Credit Suisse First Boston analyst Koji Endo in Tokyo. The setting is lovely, too, with fishing on the quays outside.

Built in 1979, “Tahara was actually considered a mistake because it was much too automated,” said auto analyst Maryann Keller of Maryann Keller and Associates in Greenwich, Conn. In terms of costs, “it was not a competitive factory when they built it.”

The sprawling plant is air-conditioned. Computer-controlled robots do the heavy lifting and dirty work. More than 95 percent of the stamping, welding and painting operations are automated, while plant workers focus on the trim and final assembly — the details a customer notices.

Today, Tahara produces 460,000 vehicles a year in its two body shops and three assembly plants. In addition to Lexus exports, the plant complex assembles Toyota’s domestic luxury car, the Crown, the RAV4 sport-utility vehicle and three other models.

Rival luxury automakers may murmur that Lexus cars are merely “souped-up Toyotas” because the two brands share a wide array of parts. But suppliers to Toyota know better.

Tahara sets and demands the highest standards.

Toyota, already a stickler for quality, will not accept components if defects exceed 50 per million parts shipped. In contrast, for Lexus vehicles, Tahara managers insist on fewer than 10 defects per million parts.

From the outset, former plant manager Kousuke Shiramizu, now executive vice president in charge of product and product engineering, established that the margin for error for Lexus vehicles would be half what it was at Toyota.

On average at Toyota, air leaks from car exhaust systems are held to 100 liters per minute, to reduce noise. On Lexus models produced at the Tahara plant, the ceiling is a stingy 8.6 liters of air per minute.

The plant’s strict quality checks include a final stretch of inspections for cars coming off the line under the unforgiving glare of very bright lights.

Toyota also tinkered with changes in the assembly line organization at Tahara, establishing several sub-assembly lines so temporary stoppages would not halt all production.

“Tahara’s the next plateau,” said consultant Dennis Pawley, former manufacturing chief at Chrysler. “Rather than having one continuous line, they’re going against the old adage and breaking up the line.”

Living up to Tahara’s standards keeps everyone at Toyota plants around the world on their toes.

I am not sure the LC is made there. I know the GX (LC Prado) and 4Runner are, but not sure about the 100. Can anyone confirm - just cuious? I though the LC is at the same plant, they just changed names from Araco to Toyota Auto Body.

Update: Not made at Tahara - here is a list of plants and products by plant.

http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/about_toyota/manufacturing/

[knorrena]

I read that in 2004 and beyond used regular fuel, whereas prior used premium. Is this true?

Karl

[Jim_Chow]

Originally Posted by knorrena

I read that in 2004 and beyond used regular fuel, whereas prior used premium. Is this true?

Karl

'03-07 are 87 octane.

I don't think the 100 is made at Tahara. I know the 4runner/Prado/GX are. FWIW, the 4runner has had problems w/ a vibration in the steering on the V8 since '03 and has yet to be fixed. On the GX, Lexus has a fix. Also, there are complaints about the 4runner driver seat developing play, etc. The new Crown had an engine-related recall a couple of years back, so Tahara hasn't been problem free.

[jditom]

[quote=ronin-0707;2760173]

Originally Posted by jditom

I have a 2004 TLC and a 2008 GX. I can't feel a big difference in power. Feels like marketing to me. Is there much difference in torque? That is where you would feel the power difference.

Just to be fair since a GX is 800lbs lighter then a TLC. I drove a 2004 GX and 2008 GX back to back. Really no difference

THANKS that was the kind of info I was looking for-I guess I will need to test drive them myself as well.
By the way nice 2004...I would be in the market in the next 6 mo or so just doing my research.

I better have her sold by then or I will give you a real good deal!

[dclee]

Originally Posted by Jim_Chow

'03-07 are 87 octane.

Yes, I believe on the earlier trucks (maybe 2000-2002) Toyota required Premium, but they retuned the engine or put more flexible parameters in the ECU starting in 2003 so you could run 87 just fine. However, not very efficiently. I actually found that it was cheaper (in terms of miles-per-gallon-per-dollar, or overall dollar cost per mile) to run with Premium 91.

[gray]

Originally Posted by zmw100

my 04 has coming up on 80k miles with no nav problems at all - If I had to guess the nav problems are related to forum members hacking the system ...

there certainly IS a concern that the entirety of the vehicle functions through the center console screen, that does bother me, and there is no manual over ride for stuff like AC controls - HOWEVER with that being said, i bough tthis 04 after a fair bit of research and can't be happier - I did however buy a long ass extended warranty that will carry it through to about 140k miles bumper to bumper. And to prove it I have already had the overhead DVD system replaced...

-Z

Regarding electric functions; does this mean, that if the NAV computer is screwed up, that nothing else works via the screen, or are they separate functions?

I had forgotten that point; no temp dials for ie: AC, correct?
all done via the screen?
Not good seems like.

g

[FirstToy]

considering it has no moving parts, it should be more reliable than electric switch buttons. When you centralize everything, it does create one weakspot (if the screen blows out, you're hosed) rather than one button going out.
I think the RX has had touchscreen HVAC controls since the early 90's with good reliability.

[dealmaker]

So if one had an '03+ with Nav, and the Nav went out, is it possible to switch in one of the '03 non-Nav HVAC control systems if one can find it? Is a '98 - '02 non-Nav HVAC "plug 'n play" compatible?

Originally Posted by LXPearl

... Although NAV remained an "option" the last LC without NAV I have seen is a 2002. The dealer told me they had seen an 03 without NAV (i.e. very rare)....

[LandCruisers4Life]

Originally Posted by ronin-0707

while reading some threads it seems those knowledgeable state the best year to buy is 2004 b/c of the quality of araco

is the power increase in the 2005-2007's noticeable over the 2004 and earlier?

what problems have people been seeing with the 2005 and newer?

our family has been thinking about a 100 series but I would like the higher output engine on the newer ones, but I don't want something of inferior quaility to the older ones

thanks for any input

I have a 2004, and it has a LOT of power for a vehicle of its size. When I get on it a bit, it MOVES. I don't see anything newer as having an advantage if you find a well kept '04.

Love my 2004..... I say go for it.

[dnp]

Originally Posted by flyfish4life

I am not sure the LC is made there. I know the GX (LC Prado) and 4Runner are, but not sure about the 100. Can anyone confirm - just cuious? I though the LC is at the same plant, they just changed names from Araco to Toyota Auto Body.

Update: Not made at Tahara - here is a list of plants and products by plant.

TOYOTA: Company > Company Profile

It's actually confusing. Reading the tables in the link, one place it says the LC IS made at Tahara and one place it says it's made at Toyota Auto Body.....(both, however, agree when they say the chassis is made at another plant)

[twstrchasr]

Originally Posted by zmw100

my 04 has coming up on 80k miles with no nav problems at all - If I had to guess the nav problems are related to forum members hacking the system ...

there certainly IS a concern that the entirety of the vehicle functions through the center console screen, that does bother me, and there is no manual over ride for stuff like AC controls - HOWEVER with that being said, i bough tthis 04 after a fair bit of research and can't be happier - I did however buy a long ass extended warranty that will carry it through to about 140k miles bumper to bumper. And to prove it I have already had the overhead DVD system replaced...

-Z

Not correct. My 2001 Nav reader unit (under the pass front seat) went out this past summer and I have never done anything to the electronics whatsoever, especially "hacking" into it. I am still pretty pissed that the thing has gone out on me. The replacement cost for the reader is $1,500.00 I believe. One other note is the transmission failure issue, which I have experienced as well. It happened this past summer at 64,000 miles. A bearing went bad, so the stealership said. I keep my vehicles in extremely good condition and these two failures have definitely left a VERY bad taste in my mouth concerning the much over hyped Land Cruiser (of which I have owned many) !!

[Bighead]

Originally Posted by dealmaker

So if one had an '03+ with Nav, and the Nav went out, is it possible to switch in one of the '03 non-Nav HVAC control systems if one can find it? Is a '98 - '02 non-Nav HVAC "plug 'n play" compatible?

Good question...I was just thinking about this.

[pint]

I think I'll just keep my 2000. The only "problem" I've had is the common cracked exhaust manifolds. I just had them fixed along with the 90K service. No Nav to die. Good to go for another 100K!

[dclee]

Originally Posted by pint

I think I'll just keep my 2000. The only "problem" I've had is the common cracked exhaust manifolds. I just had them fixed along with the 90K service. No Nav to die. Good to go for another 100K!

[SR.GRINGO]

I have been thinking about purchasing a 100 or LX toward the end of the year....the prices are really falling. My dilema is buying a Mexican version vs. a U.S. version. The price of a used 100 in Mexico is about the same as a used LX in the U.S. No navigation down here and only a two year warranty. The VVti arrived only for the 07 here.

[hoser]

Ah, good to know about the Mexican non-navi 100's. How difficult would it be to find junkyard 100 parts down there? I'm guessing fairly difficult. But if possible, it should be cheaper to source the non-navi components from Mexico than from Japan/OZ. They will be LHD too.

[LandCruisers4Life]

Originally Posted by flyfish4life

CR says 2004 is one of the worst years, but nothing mechanical. VVTi became available in 2006. To date, I have only of cosmetic issues for 2006-7 models.

Consumer Reports sucks. I don't know where they get their information, but they've been wrong plenty of times on vehicles that I have had great reliability from.

As for power, how much do you want? I have driven my 04 in the mountains and had no problems, and with power to spare. the 4.7L V-8 has plenty of power. Also, I have had no issues with my navigation.

There's a lot of greatly exagerated hype over the navigation in my opinion, as far as reliability is concerned.

I would buy a 2003-2005 and nothing newer with height control. AHC is proven to be a pain to Toyota, as EAS is to Rover.

[SR.GRINGO]

Originally Posted by LandCruisers4Life

Consumer Reports sucks. I don't know where they get their information, but they've been wrong plenty of times on vehicles that I have had great reliability from.

As for power, how much do you want? I have driven my 04 in the mountains and had no problems, and with power to spare. the 4.7L V-8 has plenty of power. Also, I have had no issues with my navigation.

There's a lot of greatly exagerated hype over the navigation in my opinion, as far as reliability is concerned.

I would buy a 2003-2005 and nothing newer with height control. AHC is proven to be a pain to Toyota, as EAS is to Rover.

No AHC in Mexico.

[SR.GRINGO]

[quote=hoser;3364605]Ah, good to know about the Mexican non-navi 100's. How difficult would it be to find junkyard 100 parts down there? I'm guessing fairly difficult. But if possible, it should be cheaper to source the non-navi components from Mexico than from Japan/OZ. They will be LHD too.[/QU


I will have to look into this....hardest part would probably be getting them back over the U.S. border.... what would the value be?