[CruiserPaul2000]

REPLACING FRONT ROTORS & HAVING TROUBLE GETTING OLD ONES OFF. REMOVED DUST COVER & CLIP, REMOVED 6 BOLTS ON HUB, BUT NOTHING IS COMING OFF. HAVE 105,000 MILES & NEVER HAD ROTORS OFF.

COULD USE SOME ADVICE !!! WIFE WANTS HER TRUCK BACK.
MY 4RUNNER IS TOO SMALL FOR HER!!!

CONFUSED CRUISER!!!!

HELP

[spressomon]

Remove and support the caliper if you haven't already. Then you will need a 54mm socket (or 2-1/8" works also) to remove the hub lock nuts (2) so that the entire hub can be removed...then you will have access to the bolts that retain the rotor to the hub flange. Then you'll need to support the rotor and with a soft (brass or shot filled heavy mallet) hammer pound the hub from the rotor.

This would be a good time to clean the bearings, bearing cavities (inner hub) and races and regrease. You might end up needing a gasket that sits underneath the outer flange.

[Jim_Chow]

I assume you got the 6 cone washers off after removing the 6 hub nuts? If not, thread the nuts on the bolts a little (so the washers don't go flying off), use a brass bar (like 3/4" diameter or larger; 3/8-1/2" will bend) and BFH or brass hammer and pound the bolt studs until the cone washers pop loose. After this (and removing the brake caliper, axle clip, and outer axle nuts/lock washer/inner axle nut), the entire hub/rotor unit should lift off in one piece. Lay the wheel upside down and you can put the rotor/hub in the wheel and use it as a work surface when removing the rotors/torquing the rotor bolts on. You may as well repack the inner bearings, as this should be done at 30K mi intervals anyways (plus the dealer will charge an arm and a leg to do it!). I found that using a stack of scrap hardwood flooring works great in pounding in the soft metal oil seal.

[jahmaka]

here

http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_b..._05-18-04a.pdf

[NMuzj100]

Great link jahmaka.

Good article on Brake fluids too

Stoptech article on Brake fluid

the message here is this: it’s fine to upgrade from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 3 fluid B, but you should think twice (maybe even three times) before switching from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 4 fluid of any sort.

Makes me question my decision to go with DOT 4 fluid. I probably should have gone with a Toyota DOT3 for assured compatibility especially given the expense of a new master.

Bleeding ABS systems (also from Stoptech) I recommended for anyone trying to "flush" their brake fluid. The 100's system seems likely to have a seperate ABS reservoir given the FSMs instructions on brake bleeding and the use of the Toyota Hand-held tester.

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by NMuzj100

Great link jahmaka.

Good article on Brake fluids too

Stoptech article on Brake fluid

the message here is this: it’s fine to upgrade from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 3 fluid B, but you should think twice (maybe even three times) before switching from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 4 fluid of any sort.

Makes me question my decision to go with DOT 4 fluid. I probably should have gone with a Toyota DOT3 for assured compatibility especially given the expense of a new master.

Bleeding ABS systems I also recommened for anyone trying to "flush" their brake fluid. The 100's system seems likely to have a seperate ABS reservoir given the FSMs instructions on brake bleeding and the use of the Toyota Hand-held tester.

Great information about the ABS portion of our systems!!! Always wondered why the FSM bleed process was different from other vehicles I have owned!

Thanks!

[CruiserPaul2000]

hey guys!!

Thanks for the feedback & links! (esp the one for big rotor upgrade- pictures help a ton for me- thanks to Jahmaka) All have been very heplful in understanding how these rotors need to be removed! I'll be in the garage Sat am to put it to use! I'll give a full report on my progress!!

thanks,
Paul

ps - have u guys turned rotors or typically replace ( 105K???)
-- never turned - hit metal this time cuz I did't jump on it when the sqeelers went off. dummy. -- grooved the rotors on inside.
I noticed they wore way faster on inside than outside. i'm assuming its because pads were hangin up on pins that were crapped up. inspected caliper - pistons not hangin up.

Also I just purchased stock 18in rims off 2005 LC. Would u guys reccomend 285-60-18 or 275-60-18 ? any suggestion 4 rubber?
90% road/ 10% off (until I take it over) Right now its the family truckster w/ snowy buffalo winters! Was thinking of Bridgestone Dueler Revo or Alenza?
I have Revos on my 4Runner & like them alot! Any feedback??

Thanks again!!! appreciate any comments!!!!

I was checkin out the pic galleries- some awesome rides . love all the mods u guys have done-- very impressive!!!!!!

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

hey guys!!

Thanks for the feedback & links! (esp the one for big rotor upgrade- pictures help a ton for me- thanks to Jahmaka) All have been very heplful in understanding how these rotors need to be removed! I'll be in the garage Sat am to put it to use! I'll give a full report on my progress!!

thanks,
Paul

ps - have u guys turned rotors or typically replace ( 105K???)
-- never turned - hit metal this time cuz I did't jump on it when the sqeelers went off. dummy. -- grooved the rotors on inside.
I noticed they wore way faster on inside than outside. i'm assuming its because pads were hangin up on pins that were crapped up. inspected caliper - pistons not hangin up.

Also I just purchased stock 18in rims off 2005 LC. Would u guys reccomend 285-60-18 or 275-60-18 ? any suggestion 4 rubber?
90% road/ 10% off (until I take it over) Right now its the family truckster w/ snowy buffalo winters! Was thinking of Bridgestone Dueler Revo or Alenza?
I have Revos on my 4Runner & like them alot! Any feedback??

Thanks again!!! appreciate any comments!!!!

I was checkin out the pic galleries- some awesome rides . love all the mods u guys have done-- very impressive!!!!!!

I have personally had issues when turning rotors...now I just replace them. I installed ART rotors recently to increase the brake effectivness, modulation, etc. because of the increased weight of my rig. Too bad you aren't closer as I have the four rotors off my '99 you could have...which are still in fairly good shape.

Also since you are in NY you will probably need to replace the front brake pad guide pins...which on my NY '99 were completely rust frozen. FYI: You need to get these from Toyota.

[CruiserPaul2000]

i did purchase 4 new guide pins just for that reason! The guys at Toyota said to put never seize on the pins. I was gonna use white lithiam grease.
I may just replace rotors since they are scored- may have to take off too much , then they may get too hot. thanks for the offer on the rotors spessomon!

Paul

[CruiserPaul2000]

I cud use an espresso bout now.

P

[CruiserPaul2000]

Originally Posted by jahmaka

here



http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_b..._05-18-04a.pdf

GREAT LINK!!!
Is this exerpt from a FSM? need to get a FSM- anyone know the best place to get one?

gotta love the detail!!!!!

thanks again jahmaka

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

i did purchase 4 new guide pins just for that reason! The guys at Toyota said to put never seize on the pins. I was gonna use white lithiam grease.
I may just replace rotors since they are scored- may have to take off too much , then they may get too hot. thanks for the offer on the rotors espessmon!

Paul

I used brake grease (it's high temp)...you can buy it in little single pacs at Kragen Auto out here in the West...to lube the anti-squeel plates as well as the pins.

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

GREAT LINK!!!
Is this exerpt from a FSM? need to get a FSM- anyone know the best place to get one?

gotta love the detail!!!!!

thanks again jahmaka

CDan or SINCITY100 for best deal AFAIK.

[NMuzj100]

My thought on the front is to machine it then measure it. Just had a rear disc machined when I let the pads get metal to metal. Even after machining it was well over minimum spec and only cost $11 to get it machined.

Mininum spec for front disc thickness is 30mm (Standard 32mm). They took approximately 1mm off my machined rear disc so that would work out to around 3% of the total thickness of a front. Not too likely to result in performance problems or lead to warping.


My research trying to find the optimal brake fluid led me to this ATE SL.6

[CruiserPaul2000]

Thanks SNMuzj100!
Think I should flush the brake system? any tips? pump & refill????

Are you happy with Revos? Thinking of getting them with my upraded 18 in rims off a 2005 LC as i said in earlier post. Might look good w/ OWL out????
Going to 275/65/18.

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

Thanks SNMuzj100!
Think I should flush the brake system? any tips? pump & refill????

Are you happy with Revos? Thinking of getting them with my upraded 18 in rims off a 2005 LC as i said in earlier post. Might look good w/ OWL out????
Going to 275/65/18.

If you are not familiar with Speedbleeders..they are worth the $ for one person brake system bleed down.

[CruiserPaul2000]

HEY GUYS!

Succesfully removed front rotors & hubs thanks to everyone who gave me feedback!!! very much appreciated!!!!!

Now I need to clean up hub, repack bearings & re- assemble- need new gasket for flanges.

Anyone have torque specs for re-assembly?

thanks!

[spressomon]

Wheel lug nuts: 76ft lb
Caliper mounting bolts (2): 90 ft lb
Disc to hub (5): 54 ft lb
Preload for bearing adjusting nut: 43 ft lb (initial); final: 38-57 in lb)
Outer lock nut: 47 ft lb
Cone washer lock nuts (6): 24 ft lb

[CruiserPaul2000]

Thanks

I'll let u know how it goes!

[CruiserPaul2000]

RE: re-assembly

on p.22 of link from jahmaka it states:

"adjusting bearing preload is critical"

need clarification in laymans terms! seems important & don't want to screw this up!

http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_b..._05-18-04a.pdf

[Jim_Chow]

Originally Posted by NMuzj100

Great link jahmaka.

Good article on Brake fluids too

Stoptech article on Brake fluid

the message here is this: it’s fine to upgrade from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 3 fluid B, but you should think twice (maybe even three times) before switching from DOT 3 fluid A to DOT 4 fluid of any sort.

Makes me question my decision to go with DOT 4 fluid. I probably should have gone with a Toyota DOT3 for assured compatibility especially given the expense of a new master.

Bleeding ABS systems (also from Stoptech) I recommended for anyone trying to "flush" their brake fluid. The 100's system seems likely to have a seperate ABS reservoir given the FSMs instructions on brake bleeding and the use of the Toyota Hand-held tester.

One co-worker of mine track races and told me dot 4 has a higher boiling point, but absorbs more water than a dot 3, so you need to flush more often (he added the water absorption isn't a problem here in AZ). I've been using Valvoline dot 4 in my Aisin FJ80 master cylinder for 5 yrs, flushed every 1.5 yrs. So far, so good.

As far as bleeding goes, the Lexus tech tells me you just need to hold down the brake pedal w/ ignition "on" to bleed the rears (pump will pump fluid out), but for the fronts, you can either use the Lexus/Toyota tester (or ABS SST) or pump the old-fashioned way. This seems logical since when the master fails, the fail-safe mode is zero brake pressure the rear and reduced pressure up front. It suggests the rear is completely dependent on the hydraulic pump while the front isn't. I haven't tried this yet to confirm it.

My local Lexus dealer doesn't sell/use Toyota dot 3 fluid. They use the cheapie Pyroil dot 3 (made by Valvoline) sold at PepBoys. Ditto for the Toyota dealer in town. So just because toyota flushes your brakes, don't assume they're using Toyota brand fluid. Ask first! I'm not even sure it's available here in the States. Has anyone bought any? This goes for ATF and coolant, too. I've heard of some toyota dealers using cheapie green for a radiator drain & fill! I sure wish Toyota sold that super-long life pre-mixed coolant they use at the factory.

[NMuzj100]

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

Thanks SNMuzj100!
Think I should flush the brake system? any tips? pump & refill????

I would flush the brake fluid since you've done most of the work already when you are bleeding. Very easy to do with an assistant.

- Key to "On". (engine need not be running)
- Assistant pumps a few times and then holds pedal down.
- Crack a bleeder (10mm box wrench) and fluid flows rapidly to the waiting jar.
- The fluid moves fast so keep the master above minimum.
- If you lose pressure close the bleeder and have the assistant pump/hold again.
- Right front, Left front, Right Rear, Left Rear.
- According to the FSM all four corners bleed the same.
- If you are going to remove a caliper to inspect or replace a pad crack the bleeder before removing the caliper as it can be much harder to turn them when the caliper is loose
- Bleeders are rated for 8ft/lbs torque. Don't over do it. Broken bleeders are common at repair shops.
- after bleeding use brake cleaner to spray fluid off the bleeder (this will make finding any leak later much easier)
- Take this chance to inspect the "rubber" portion of the brake lines
- Before filling the reservoir to "max" release pressure on the system.
- Key to "off" and pump pedal 40+ times until the stroke is lighter and longer.
- Then fill to "max" line.

Now to clear the ABS components you need to go find a road where you can activate the ABS a couple of times. this should mix the Fluid from the ABS channels with the rest of your fluid. This will not flush the old fluid totally out of the system but will ensure that the fluid in the critical ABS components is at least as good as the rest of the system.

The hard-core (not me) could then flush again to ensure the cleanest fluid possible.

Based on what I've read I would choose from the following fluids:
1. Toyota Brand DOT3 - Conservative choice for seal/master cylinder compatability - may be pricey/hard to find
2. Valvoline Synpower Dot4 - Higher performance at low price - readily available - should be fine $6/QT
3. ATE Super Blue Dot4 - Highest performance - $10/Liter - manufacturer says only needs flushed every three years - blue color makes flushing easy to see. (same as ATE Typ 200 only blue) - may have to order online

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

The guys at Toyota said to put never seize on the pins. I was gonna use white lithium grease.

Don't use White Lithium as it can't take the heat. Use the disc brake grease ($1 a packet stuff) as recommended by spressoman.

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

Are you happy with Revos?

Yes, no complaints. They take some of the fun out of winter driving though. No sliding around. Good tire for 90% road 10% trail.

While it is all apart you may want to consider lubing the spindle bushings as described by Christo in this thread. Vibration Thread

[spressomon]

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

RE: re-assembly

on p.22 of link from jahmaka it states:

"adjusting bearing preload is critical"

need clarification in laymans terms! seems important & don't want to screw this up!

http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_b..._05-18-04a.pdf

Toyota per the LC FSM uses a different method for settting the front wheel bearing pre-load...but here it is:

You will need a fish type scale with a hook on each end. Torque the first hub bearing adjusting nut to 43 ft lb, then turn the axle/hub several times to "settle down the bearings" (from the fresh grease), then loosen the adjusting nut until it can be rotated by hand. Then retighten the adjusting nut to 38-57 in lb.. Using the spring tension gauge measure the preload (at starting) to 9.5 - 15.0 ft lb. Note: You will install the 'hook' of the spring guage onto a wheel stud (probably the top stud) and apply tension at a 90 degree angle all the while measuring the start up tension at 9.5 - 15.0 ft lb. Install the second lock nut and torque to 47 ft lb. Then recheck your bearing preload with the spring guage. Note: Apply the spring guage in the direction of forward wheel travel.

FYI: I followed this when I did mine a couple months ago and this was the largest/highest amount of wheel bearing preload I have ever applied to a wheel bearing. But heh...who am I to argue!

[jahmaka]

No problem guys,i am here to please.You guys should try Mutal 600 brake fluid,i think it's the best out their,but it costly.About $15 per bottle.

[NMuzj100]

CruiserPaul2000 Finished in another thread ...

Originally Posted by CruiserPaul2000

Mission accomplished!!

Thanks to all the guys who gave me feedback on rotor/hub removal!!! Every comment was appreciated & helpful. Ended up borrowing 54mm socket from local Lexus dealer. Nobody sells that large socket locally. I bought 2 1/8 industrial socket, but wasn't deep enough becuz of spindle. Anyway finally had time to work on it today & was able to complete the job!!

Question:

Do you guys usually pack extra grease in the hub beyond repacking the bearings???

Would like to get some service manuals, I found Sincity but not CDan? Are the manuals on CD on EBAY actual Toyota service manuals or aftermarket?? Any good??

I also took your advice to flush the system out to get some fresh blood in those lines. No problems!! Braking is awesome!

Stock 18 inch LC wheels look GREAT with Bridgestone Alenzas! What a difference in the ride!

Thanks again!!

Paul

P.S.
Anyone know what my 4- stock 16in wheels off 2000 LC
are worth??
If you know of anybody looking let me know!!!!

Note: One of my neighbors has a beefed up FJ40 (not sure what year) w/ lift kit & 36in super swampers- Think I'm gonna see if he'll sell it!

[kyoso23]

Originally Posted by jahmaka

here

http://8.7.96.35/tech_info/manuals_b..._05-18-04a.pdf

It'd be great if this link were rehosted. Anyone have it?

[jahmaka]

Here you go,It seems as if Stoptech redesign their website.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/ma..._05-18-04a.pdf

[kyoso23]

You are my new best E-friend. Thanks, mang!

[jahmaka]

^^ no problem

[xumFJ40]

So this may seem like a stupid question....but.....

Can you use any standard fish scale from the local outfitters to measure the pre-load?

Are all standard fish scales measuring weight in Ft. Lbs...?

Thanks,